1. 

   Judah Himango
   December 22nd, 2009 - 09:04

   Ugh. Praying for the dissolution of the State of Israel, even though it’s largely a secular democracy, just doesn’t sit right, indeed is unrighteous.

   Even when ancient Israel was in great sin, which of the prophets prayed for her destruction, rather than her repentance? And which of ancient Israel’s kings begged God for her dissolution, rather than pleaded to God for mercy and forgiveness?

   The recreation of the state of Israel in 1948, even with all its flaws, is a miracle from heaven, an act of God, part of the restoration of Israel, and a precursor to Messiah.

   The language this man uses (“bitter”, “stubborn”, “filthy”, “fools”, “criminals”) suggest he has an ax to grind and is harboring much hatred and contempt, and not the kind from God.
2. 

   Hanok
   December 22nd, 2009 - 21:33

   Why do you think I made the note in regards to Ahmadinejad? Because I knew many would compare Melech’s statement to the “destruction of Israel” tone that comes from Iran and Hezbollah and Hamas. Melech doesn’t want to see a holocaust. He wants to see the Jews ALIVE in a nation living in Torah.

   “And not the kind from God?” You don’t have any suspicion that the Most High is ALSO “harboring hatred and contempt” for the ways of the modern state of Israel? There are many factions in Israel, yes… and I suspect Y’hovah has an axe to grind against most all of them.

   The Christian Protestant and Messianic world in the West tends to elevate and defend Israel primarily on the basis of it being the sole “democracy” in the Middle East. But is “democracy” a Biblically-founded principle? When Messiah returns, will He establish a “democratic” nation?

   The modern nations of Israel should be exalted and defended because of their Ways… reflecting the Ways of Y’hovah… which would be a Light to the Middle East. Democracy is NOT Light. Democracy gave us Hamas. Now the US doesn’t want democratic elections to continue in the West Bank because they are scared the people will elect Hamas again. Abbas is wanting to quit, but the West wants to prop him up as a partner for negotiating with and placating the Muslim world.

   The restoration of “Judah” as a nation in ’48… I believe was a miracle… and Y’hovah showed Himself strong in defending Judah against Syria, Jordan, Egypt, and others… but after He defended her… what has Judah done to defend Him and His Ways? I’m afraid judgment is coming… not only to Judah… but 10-Israel nations as well…. and largely all for the same reasons. And the “kind” that is coming isn’t going to make anyone feel warm and fuzzy.

   The entire earth is filled with bloodshed and filth… and there is going to be a reckoning. I’m not sure which Prophets or which NT gospels you’ve been reading, but the Prophets, including Yehoshua, spoke fairly harshly against the people of ancient Israel and Judah… and their established leadership. Many of them died at the hands of the people because of their harsh words… such as Isaiah being sawn asunder.

   Isaiah 24:1-6
   (1) See, YHVH is making the earth empty and making it waste, and shall overturn its surface, and shall scatter abroad its inhabitants.
   (2) And it shall be – as with the people so with the priest, as with the servant so with his master, as with the female servant so with her mistress, as with the buyer so with the seller, as with the lender so with the borrower, as with the creditor so with the debtor;
   (3) the earth is completely emptied and utterly plundered, for YHVH has spoken this word.
   (4) The earth shall mourn and wither, the world shall languish and wither, the haughty people of the earth shall languish.
   (5) For the earth has been defiled under its inhabitants, because they have transgressed the Torot, changed the law, broken the everlasting covenant.
   (6) Therefore a curse shall consume the earth, and those who dwell in it be punished. Therefore the inhabitants of the earth shall be burned, and few men shall be left.
3. 

   Judah Himango
   December 23rd, 2009 - 09:31

   Hey Hanok,

   I’m not a warm and fuzzy religion guy, believe me. You don’t have to preach to the choir.

   Here’s what I’m saying: praying for the dissolution of Israel is unscriptural. And yes, democracy isn’t from God, and the state of Israel has all kinds of issues, including the secular variety and the religious abuses among those in power.

   So pray for a change in government, pray for t’shuva among the people, absolutely. But pray that Israel will be dissolved? I don’t see any of the prophets, kings, or judges of ancient Israel crying to God, asking that he dissolve the nation. Do you?
4. 

   Judah Himango
   December 23rd, 2009 - 09:37

   To clarify, I know God judges nations, even Israel. Yes, when sin comes and there is no repentance, God judges. He would not be a righteous judge if he never judged, never condemned.

   What I’m saying is, you don’t see Scriptures where people are asking the God of Israel to dissolve, destroy, replace Israel. Instead, you see the prophets, the psalmist, the judges pleading on behalf of Israel, pleading for mercy, begging God to turn the people back.
5. 

   Hanok
   December 23rd, 2009 - 12:30

   I think we’re misunderstanding or misusing terminology or employing double think. You said “praying for the dissolution of Israel is unscriptural.” Then you said “pray for a change in government”. Do you simply mean the current government just needs to have a change in heart? Or do you mean the government needs to be reformed into a different governing structure? In some sense, either is dissolving the current state of things… otherwise known as “change”.

   The dissolution of the current form of the Israeli government is going to happen. Prophetically, we know this. Praying or not praying for it to happen is of little consequence in my opinion. Arguing about whether or not it is right or not is a moot discussion also… for we know what the end game is. A secular democratic Israeli nation is not a permanent reality. Ultimately, we are going to have an Anointed (Messiah) King… otherwise known as a “Dictator” in lesser religiously/politically correct parlance. Broad “Christian” and/or “Jewish” opinion is not going to be at the helm. Yah will be steering the ship… and there will be a new ‘correctness’ eventually. Yet, the dictatorial governments we get before then (ruled by men)… is anybodies guess.

   I’m suspecting Melech wishes for the government to be reformed into a Torah-based / Temple-based system that doesn’t bow to rabbinic and/or secular and/or world opinion. Desiring such does have some Scriptural precedent… I would think… although Israel nor Judah were ever democratic in antiquity… but there were definitely periods where restructuring (i.e., a revolution) was needed.
6. 

   Hanok
   February 4th, 2010 - 21:29

   For some reason, today I was thinking back on this post and the comment thread… and I realized something.

   Any person, whether Christian, Messianic, Nazarene, Ephraimite (pick your favorite category) who has a de-facto hope for and support for the return of Messiah Yeshua is inherently hoping for and supporting the dissolution of the current government of Israel.
7. 

   Shiloh
   July 6th, 2011 - 08:20

   many false prophets will rise.
8. 

   Hanok
   July 6th, 2011 - 08:55

   Mmmm… deep…

   Will the false ones be calling for Written-Torah-based repentance?

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