Nehemia Gordon: The Ass Speaks Out
Many flavors of Jews, Christians, and Messianics have been wondering or waiting for a more detailed dialog from Nehemia on the issue of his personal view of Yeshua / Jesus. Many of us have listened to Nehemia enough to already have a fairly good grasp of his perspective and approach to Yeshua and the NT (as a textual scholar), but even so... the following email (from Nehemia) is very insightful and entertaining for even those who thought they already understood him!
Nehemia may be a beast of burden, but he is certainly no Ass. He and few others have carried much of the weight of teaching Ephraim many important matters on Torah and even the Living Torah, Yeshua (even though he doesn't see Yeshua as such necessarily).
Enjoy!
Hanok
Source: Makor Hebrew Foundation group
The Ass Speaks Out
"Ass - a long-eared, slow, patient, sure-footed domesticated mammal, Equus asinus, related to the horse, used chiefly as a beast of burden." (Dictionary.com)
It's been several months since the publication of my book "A Prayer to Our Father", which I wrote together with Keith E. Johnson, a Christian pastor from North Carolina. This book explores the Hebrew origins of what is commonly known as the "Lord's Prayer". Many of my Jewish brothers and sisters have expressed great concern over the book. Some have even speculated that I have secretly converted to Christianity and am leading others into the Christian faith. Some of my Christian friends have joined in this speculation thinking that perhaps there is a "surprise ending" to the book in which I proclaim my faith in Jesus. On the flip side, some Messianics are spreading the false rumor that I allegedly hold secret meetings during my speaking tours in which I try to convince "believers" to abandon their faith. I hate to disappoint the rumormongers but none of these is true. I have not converted to Christianity nor do I attempt to convince anyone to change their faith. I suppose the reason for these false speculations is that some people have a hard time understanding why a Jew who does not believe in Jesus would write a book on his teachings unless he has a secret agenda. I thought I explained this rather well in my books but I guess not everyone reads my books. Or perhaps I am not as eloquent as I like to think. So I am writing this to try and set the record straight.
Let me start with my views on Jesus of Nazareth, or as he was known 2000 years ago, "Yeshua". Over the past few years I have gained a great respect for his teachings, but I have not embraced the Christian faith nor have I become a "Messianic Jew." I clearly state this in all of my presentations in order to avoid any possible confusion. I am, as I have been for over twenty years, a Karaite Jew, which means I believe the Tanakh ("Old Testament") to be the perfect word of God. As a Karaite Jew, I await the coming of an anointed King (in Hebrew: "Messiah") who will be a direct descendant of King David. I have no idea what his name will be and therefore I do not rule out the possibility that his name will be "Yeshua". Many Jews, and Karaites in particular, may vehemently disagree with me on this last point. All I can say is that when the anointed descendant of David reigns as a flesh and blood king over Israel, as promised in the Scriptures, we will all know his name as an accomplished fact.
So why do I have what one of my sisters – a devout Orthodox Jew – refers to as an "unhealthy interest in Jesus"? It started many years ago, when I came out of Rabbinical Judaism and began researching all of the world's religions. I was particularly interested in ancient Judaism in all of its forms and this naturally included the teaching ministry of Yeshua of Nazareth. My interest in this subject is not as unusual as my sister might think. Over the past century, Jewish scholars have increasingly carried out research to uncover the Hebrew background and context of the New Testament. One of the greatest of these scholars was Professor David Flusser, himself an Orthodox Jew, who taught at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. I was trained in the study of ancient Jewish texts at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem where I earned my Masters Degree in Biblical Studies and I view my own research on the teachings of Yeshua as part of this scholarly tradition.
To give this research some context, a number of years ago I was privileged to have worked with the Dead Sea Scrolls, which were written by an ancient Jewish movement called the Essenes. While I believe the Dead Sea Scrolls contain great value, at no time did I ever become an Essene. Furthermore, as a textual scholar researching the scrolls it was not my role to convince anyone whether or not to believe in Essene Judaism. My role as a scholar was to attempt to understand what these ancient documents meant in their original linguistic, historical, and cultural context. This is how I see my role in exploring the Hebrew background of the New Testament. It is not my role as a textual scholar to lead anyone into the Christian faith. Nor is it my role to lead anyone out of the Christian faith. These are issues of personal faith and belief that are beyond the scope of my research. My role as a textual scholar is to understand what Yeshua taught in the linguistic, historical, and cultural context in which he preached. For those who believe in Yeshua I would think this should be of great importance. But it should also be important for non-Christians, as Yeshua was indisputably a pivotal figure in world history who profoundly influenced the development of Western civilization.
In addition to my interest in all forms of ancient Judaism, there is another reason I think it is important for me to share the results of this research, especially with Christians. It relates to an experience I had many years ago in Jerusalem. Living in the Holy City, I meet all kinds of interesting people. One such gentleman was an American tourist who described himself as a "Messianic Gentile". I had heard of "Messianic Jews" before but did not know what a Messianic Gentile was. He explained that he believed Yeshua to be the Messiah and wanted to live as Yeshua lived. He told me that as a Jew, Yeshua refrained from eating pork and went to the synagogue on the Sabbath. Although he had no Jewish ancestry that he knew of, he too wanted to live as Yeshua had lived, refraining from pork and going to a synagogue on the Sabbath. At the time I had never met anyone quite like this and was very intrigued. We ended up spending many long hours discussing our respective beliefs and practices. One day he was telling me about the prayers in his congregation back in America and he proudly announced that in his Messianic synagogue they recited the Amidah. When I heard this I was shocked because I knew something he obviously did not know. The Amidah is the standard prayer of Rabbinical Judaism and I grew up as an Orthodox Jew praying this prayer three times a day. The Amidah is also known as the "Eighteen Benedictions" but today actually contains 19 benedictions. The 19th benediction, which my friend obviously did not know about, is called the Birkat HaMinim which means "the Blessing of the Heretics". Despite its name, it is actually a curse of the so-called "heretics". Historical sources, most notably the Talmud, inform us that this 19th benediction was added to the Amidah around the year 90 CE in order to prevent those Jews who accepted Yeshua as the Messiah from participating in synagogue services. At the time, the Rabbis did not have the authority to prevent Yeshua's Jewish followers from attending the synagogues but they reasoned these people would stop coming if a public curse was proclaimed upon them during every prayer service. When this "Messianic Gentile" told me his congregation recited the Amidah during their services I thought surely he meant the Amidah without the Birkat HaMinim. So I asked him to show me his Messianic prayer book and I quickly flipped to the section containing the Amidah. To my horror I found that it indeed contained the Birkat HaMinim. It had been translated in a very clever way to obscure its meaning, but there it was in black and white in both Hebrew and English. I was heartbroken at the thought of an entire group of devout people, who were searching in their own way for Scriptural truth, proclaiming a public curse upon themselves because they did not understand the historical context of their own faith. They wanted to live as Yeshua lived but ended up reciting a prayer created to curse those who believed in Yeshua. I realized then and there that the Almighty had blessed me with an understanding of ancient languages and ancient Jewish texts and I was morally obligated to share that information with anyone who needed it, even if I disagreed with them on important matters of faith.
As a Jew, it is not all that strange for me to interact with people that I disagree with on matters of faith. This is part of the pluralism inherent in Jewish culture in general. There is an old saying that "if you ask two Jews you get three opinions." This witticism is based on a fundamental principle in Rabbinical Judaism that there are seventy true meanings to every single word in Scripture. The result of this doctrine is that multiple opinions can be tolerated, even when they are diametrically opposed. This approach has imbued Jews with a relatively pluralistic attitude towards matters of belief, especially when these beliefs do not result in any practical expression of ritual observance. This is in sharp contrast to the Christian tradition of breaking fellowship, and indeed in earlier centuries of burning people at the stake, over the subtlest of doctrinal nuances.
As a Karaite, I do not agree with the Rabbinical principle that there are seventy true meanings to everything in Scripture. I believe there is only one true interpretation. However, with the Temple in ruins and the People of Israel in a state of Exile we do not necessarily know what that one true interpretation is. This necessitates a pragmatic pluralism which in some ways is even more tolerant than Rabbinical Judaism. Karaite Jews believe we must do our best to discover the truth but also humble ourselves before God and admit that we can never know for sure "until a priest with Urim and Thummim should appear" (Ezra 2:63). This humility means not judging our brothers for disagreeing on matters of faith, and even on matters of ritual observance, as long as they do their best to discover the Scriptural truth. I am not saying every Jew, nor even every Karaite, always lives up to these ideals but they are nevertheless values deeply rooted in Jewish culture.
Considering that there are, according to the World Christian Encyclopedia, over 33,000 denominations, I would have thought Christians to be even more tolerant to differences of faith and practice than Jews. To be sure, this may be true for many Christians. However, I did not realize how alien this pluralistic approach was to some Christians until last year when I was on a speaking tour in the USA. After one of my presentations a man walked up to me and thanked me for the information I had shared. He told me that he had been told by his congregation leader not come to my presentation. The congregation leader had warned him that as someone who does not believe in Jesus I was not "anointed" to speak the truth. The man objected to his congregation leader: "If God could use Balaam's ass to speak the truth then surely he could use Nehemia".
I suppose most Jews would be deeply offended at being compared to a female donkey but I was more disturbed by the arrogance of this man's congregation leader. I was raised with the tradition of the Rabbis who taught: "Who is a wise man? He who learns from every man." (Ethics of the Fathers 4:1). Karaite Jews wholeheartedly embrace this principle, often quoting the words of the 12th century Rabbinical sage Maimonides (Rambam): "Accept the truth from whoever speaks it." When Maimonides said this he was referring to the mathematical and astronomical knowledge he learned from ancient Greeks sources. He did not dismiss or ignore this knowledge even though it came from pagans because the knowledge was true in its own right. It is important to note that this was not simply "secular" knowledge to Maimonides; it had practical application to the observance of certain biblical commandments.
The original disciples of Yeshua and their heirs understood that truth had value regardless of its source. Evidence of this can be found in the Book of Acts, which quotes the words Gamaliel, a leading Pharisee of the 1st century. Although Gamaliel was not a believer in Yeshua, the Book of Acts considered what he said to be valuable and true in its own right. The notion that a Christian today would categorically deem what Jews have to say as worthless and untrustworthy because of our different beliefs is the zenith of arrogance. I am reminded of the words of Paul of Tarsus (admittedly a Jew) who warned the Gentiles:
"But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place to share the rich root of the olive tree, do not boast over the branches. If you do boast, remember that it is not you that support the root, but the root that supports you." Romans 11:17-18
I suspect Paul was talking about something that was already happening in his own time: Gentiles were embracing the faith in Yeshua and boasting that they were better than the Jews who did not share their new belief, even though these Jews were the "root" of their faith.
As if this arrogance were not bad enough, shortly after being compared to Balaam's ass, the specter of anti-Semitism reared its ugly head. I had been invited to speak at a Christian conference when the organizer received a dire warning from a local Christian pastor. The pastor proclaimed that as a "non-believing Jew" I was operating under the control of the "spirit of Antichrist". When I heard this I thought the pastor meant it metaphorically, but it turns out he meant there was a literal demonic spirit that was influencing my every move. He explained that it was nothing against me personally but all "non-believing Jews" are under the spirit of Antichrist. Boasting against the root is one thing, but this amounts to cursing the root.
Some of my fellow Jews reading this are probably thinking: "So why bother, Nehemia! Let the goyim languish in their ignorance." My answer is that there are countless Christians out there who want to understand their faith in its original historical, cultural, and linguistic context. Jesus of Nazareth was a Jew who spoke Hebrew and lived as a Jew among Jews. It just so happens that God has blessed me with a knowledge of ancient Judaism and ancient Hebrew and I feel compelled to share this information with those with those who need it, even if I disagree with them on important matters of faith. The Torah teaches us to love our neighbors as we love ourselves which means to treat others as we ourselves want to be treated. I know that if I lacked vital knowledge I would want someone who had this knowledge to share it with me. I must, therefore, share the knowledge I have with those who need it. I am not saying I know everything or that I have all the answers. But if God could use a donkey to speak to Balaam perhaps he is using me for some purpose that is beyond my comprehension. I pray that like Balaam's ass this is a burden I can continue to bear.
Nehemia Gordon
In Salem, Oregon
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February 22nd, 2010 - 18:53
I received this letter this morning from Nehemia as well. Encouraging to read, IMO.
I admit to having doubts about Nehemia. I went to see him several years ago, and he seemed to be sincere enough. He was up-front about his non-belief in Yeshua.
Still, I had heard some rumors that he was converting Messiah’s followers to Karaite Judaism. I’ve kept a suspicious eye on him.
This letter from him does alleviate some concerns.
February 23rd, 2010 - 01:39
AWESOME! Regardless of faith, a man who stands on moral grounds of treating his neighbour with respect, love and as he would want to be treated himself is REFRESHING! There are truth lovers and then there are “religious” lovers. I pray we seek the TRUTH — the TRUTH and CREATOR or all things and we will do so HUMBLY for ONLY HE can give us light to see the path to the sign, the door and the LIFE!
February 23rd, 2010 - 07:54
If somehow (I don’t think he has mind control down yet) he is “converting” Christians/Messy-antics to Karaite Judaism, isn’t that an improvement? =) Or I wonder if the Karaites have as much infighting, divisions and judgmentalism going on? =)
Are you saying Karaites cannot enter the kingdom? As I see it they are following Lk 8:21 just as Jesus taught and will.
We have a bunch of people professing Jesus and thinking they are saved and then we have some people who do what Jesus said without knowing it (Lk 8:21) and people thinking they are not going to be in the kingdom…all for missing one piece of information that was not available until 30 AD.
Well, how were people before that saved like the righteous Esther or Mordachai…? Gen 15:6=Lk 8:21 holds the answer…
February 23rd, 2010 - 11:13
Nehemia is certainly one of the most influential individuals to convert my thinking to Karaism, although I don’t really think of myself as a Karaite. But more importantly, Nehemia has NEVER said anything that caused me to reject my trust in Yeshua as Redeemer (and I know many others who share this in common with me).
Unto this day, my trust in Yeshua has been reinforced and strengthened because of what I have learned in regards to the life of Yeshua as someone who walked perfectly within the bounds of the Written Torah, making Him the only blameless Passover Lamb. Nehemia’s books and presentations have only confirmed this (although not in those types of words of course).
Individuals who give up their faith in Yeshua because of the influence of others… those people I question whether or not they ever really allowed the seed of faith to take root in their life. If the seed is in good ground and has become a strong tree over time (with nurturing), being much taller and stronger than the surrounding competing forces… it is very unlikely someone is going to convince that tree to bear a different type of fruit (fruit being righteousness).
So if Nehemia is a tree bearing good fruit… and encouraging others to bear the same type of righteous fruit that Yeshua encouraged His disciples to bear, then where is the danger in association (i.e., Keith Johnson or Michael Rood partnering with Nehemia)? Ultimately, that seems to be where religious Jews, Christians, and Messianics get discombobulated. People like Nehemia are encouraging the sheep to produce fruit that is different that mainstream Judaism, Rabbinic Messy-anticism, and mainstream Christianity. Therein is the rub… me thinks…
February 23rd, 2010 - 11:25
Thanks Tim… for making that connection.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Gen%2015:6,%20Luke%208:21&version=NASB
February 23rd, 2010 - 11:43
Father used the Karaites as a way to set me straight from the confusion and lack of teaching in, as Tim McHyde puts it, Messy-antics. In my opinion, here is a great website to study truth from our brother Judah with out the rabbinical filters
http://www.karaite-korner.org/index.shtml#outline
Thank you Nehemiah, for the servant you are to YWHW, and the truth of HIS word you share.
Just an Ephraimite who is listening to an elder brother from Judah
TEOM
February 25th, 2010 - 08:52
Hanok, turns out Nehemiah runs a website designed to turn people from Yeshua, and his own Karaite Korner links to these sites.
This makes his letter here about not trying to change anyone’s faith a hallow statement.
Have a look: Is Nehemiah Gordon an anti-missionary?
February 26th, 2010 - 10:31
Judah,
Look, I have links on this website to sites like Brit-Am and Kol-Hator which are huge advocates for 10-Israel to follow Rabbinic halakha. One could design a “conspiracy theory” that I’m secretly harboring pro-Rabbinic sympathies because I have these links… and I thus must be secretly colluding with Rabbinic Jews to turn Christians to Rabbinism.
But such is not the case. I leave those links on my site because I respect and appreciation some of their message, but of course not the entirety.
The Light of Israel website is a website largely dedicated to the memory of Mordecai Alfandari and the things he wrote about, and I’m fairly certain he was a mentor of Nehemia… but he was obviously well-known for his anti-missionary writings, but probably more known for his anti-rabbinic writings. I’m not sure if Nehemia agrees with all of the anti-missionary activities now, but I do know his own actions have differed from Mordecai in this regard. Furthermore, I know Nehemia disagrees on other points with Mordecai, such as how the Great Name is to be pronounced… but I have no doubt that Nehemia greatly respected and appreciates the overall memory of Mordechai.
Personally, I still trust what Nehemia has said in his own defense… knowing what I’ve seen of him personally, but of course not knowing all things he has done and said in private with other Kariates (many of whom actually are frustrated with Nehemia’s “Yeshua/Jesus” related writings which seem to authenticate Yeshua and not dismiss him). There are Karaites who actually believe “Jesus” never existed, but instead he was a figment of Rome’s imagination. Obviously, Karaites, like every group, don’t always agree on EVERY thing.
June 24th, 2010 - 17:39
I just want to simlpe say..NO religion saves anyone…ONLY the word of God..If we love HIM..He leads us in all truth…Lets dont put God in a box…I believe Yeshua is the Messiah…I get this from staying in the Word…Im learning Hebrew…Salvation is mentioned MANY times…Yeshua means salvation..He points us to obey from love the commandments of our God….
July 19th, 2010 - 19:58
Yes… no religion at all only the Word of G-d. The prophet Jeremiah talked about an enduring eternal Torah and Covenant, in which G-d himself made His own Takanot thru Yeshua. According to this Torah written in the hearts. This was enacted by G-d himself when Yeshua died as according to the Torah and the Prophets.
Yeshua was against religious man-made doctrines and creeds, and the enactments of the Pharisees. These made it impossible for anyone to follow the written Word of G-d. When Yeshua came, promoting and teaching Torah, he then proclaimed BOTH Torahs. The Torah Written, and the Torah in the Heart. He proclaimed the Mosaic Law (because before his death He and all of Israel were under it) as well as the eternal Covenant of Mercy which G-d enacted thru him. The prophet Jeremiah speaks of an eternal vow with Yisrael… and a new covenant “nothing like the covenant given to Moses”, with a Torah written in the hearts. G-d then says many analogies saying “This law will never pass”, “Only if you can change the nature of my law so that the sun stops rising and falling”… this is a parallel to when Yeshua said “Not one jot or tittle shall pass away!” He was reffering to the new eternal covenant whom only G-d himself could enact, and sent Messiah to atone for, and end the Mosaic.
Unfortunately most messianics do not understand this and think it to mean that the 613 Mitzvot are what is being spoken of. It is hard to separate because during Yeshua’s ministry he was proclaiming BOTH because BOTH are the word of G-d.
Thus… the only law is to “Love thy neighbor” as Yeshua Taught… He also taught us that we can see the kingdom if we become like little children. Imagine how little children see the world. They do not see it like religious adults. Picture this if you will…
A room full of little children. From all races, religious creeds, social and economic classes… How do THEY, see the world? How do THEY see the other children? They see them as no different as them. They see equality. They only know love and crave love. Everything else: Division, hate, violence…. they will not and can not understand.
Christianity does not save. The word of G-d saves. I believe the atoning work of Yeshua opened this up for all people. It is not a creed, not all who call Yeshua “lord” will enter the kingdom. Even in Romans 10: The word used incorrectly is “confess”. A strong’s concordance will show that this is the hebrew word: “Yadah”… it means “To Praise G-d and to Give thanks”. Additionally, the “Romans” who the epistle was written to already followed an earthly King. They believed their emperor was a divine god-man who was the ruler of the world. Even if the rendering “confess” is correct, it could only mean a denunciation of the Emperor. Until a proper manuscript arises we won’t know for sure.
I also know that elsewhere I found the word “convert” in my hebrew/english NT. I read thru the hebrew and found that in the hebrew the word was “teshuvah”. Interesting word play these tricky people did…
An interesting thing is that the prophets speak of a time where we will not have to teach one another or our neighbor the law, for the knowledge of G-d will cover the earth.
If one does a study of the golden rule as given by Yeshua to “Love thy neighbor”… we will see that the creed of EVERY nation and EVERY tongue IS the same. The knowledge of G-d Himself in deed COVERS the earth as the water! So what is the problem? What is anti-christ? The accuser of the brethren? I can tell a tree by it’s fruit!
Anti-christ is the spirit in which Yeshua came against when he strictly came against the religious authority who added or took away from the law by their own tradition, making the law of G-d no effect. It is the usurping of G-d, by twisting His word, and putting in it’s place the doctrine of Men. It is idolatry. We see it in the Church with her roman influence… The romans changed hebraic faith so we do not worship G-d, but worship doctrine, and in doing so have even replaced G-d by worshiping the created image of a “dead” Jesus and not the “Living Torah” as made Manifest by G-d through him…
In doing so, the mainstream bible cult (1/3) of the world’s population, in error has divided, and set itself against EVERYONE else, thus making Yeshua’s work on the cross, null and void by preaching death.
This is the world below where most people live, ruled by the spirit of anti-christ who is on the thrown of that world. We must rise up, above this spiritual state, into a higher state in the clouds and meet with Moshaich in spirit. By doing so we can bring Moshaich and G-d’s Ruach back to all of the Earth.
This is the kingdom message. Search the scriptures. This is all true. G-d himself enacted this new Torah and this new time. And anti-christ tells us that it is not here and deceives the world. Like a wolf in sheep’s clothing, tells members of “religion” do not leave me, the wolf is out there and wants to devour you! Stay with ME and you will live for ever for I am your god!” This is as the viper said in Gan Eden. “Disobey and Eat for yourself, you will not DIE, you will be like G-d!”
Religion hides the truth of love, and shuts it away from men with divisiveness and foolish traditions. Yeshua haMoshiach paid for our sins and did away with that… and ushered in and fulfilled (enact, carry out, performed) G-d’s will of this new covenant of Mercy as promised to Avraham.
If we understand this we will understand Yeshua and Paul.
I too was once in my search for the truth brought to Messianic Judaism from Christianity. All I did was trade one half-truth for one half truth! From bondage to bondage! Truth is the lens with which we see the world as ONE/Yehad! G-d is one, his word is one, and we shall be one!
This is the power of the atoning work of Yeshua. THIS is the power of G-d’s eternal Torah spoken of by the prophets! Not the covenant with moshe that was BROKE, as spoken by the prophets and written in the Tenach which G-d said he would do himself!
G-d specifically states through the prophet Jeremiah this new Torah will never pass away, unless we can either measure the sky, or get the sun to stop shining (thus destroying heaven and earth). Why in His name are we teaching the wrong Torah as “required” for salvation!? No no no no no! Does not Messianic Judaism know the very Torah and the prophets!?
As a Hebraic Christian of the Abrahamic faith (unitarian/non-trinitarian), I follow the Torah as given to us by G-d, made manifest by His Ruach HaKodesh, through Yeshua haMoshiach. This is not the 613 given to Moshe. This would require us to stone people for breaking it as it is written.
But, I also try my best to keep the Moedim, and I wear Tzit-Tzit, and I have a beard (sometimes I don’t), I try to keep Kosher, I’ve bris’d my son… but these are not required of our G-d! Not as they were in the days of Moshe. Today, only love is required! This is G-d’s own eternal word written down BEFORE Yeshua came on the scene. I do this out of love, do I require others to do the same? No! I do this because I want to culturally be close to Yeshua and the Jewish people who we OWE our existence to! Do I write “G-d” because I must? No! I do it out of love!
We can’t keep Mosaic law.. most laws are inapplicable today, it also requires putting people to death for sin! This is paid for, paid for, paid for, paid for!
The Torah is in our hearts! It is up to us to cleave to it and come closer to G-d and understand this! Antichrist requires belief in division, and divided we are separated, and separation from G-d is death!
“His banner over me is love”.
If you believe this, then you understand the true Christian faith. It was never meant to be the monster of organized religion! It was meant to END IT, in ALL it’s forms!
That crafty, crafty, snake!
G-d calls us to “come up” and rise above this lower realm of division and sin that is “for now” run by the Adversary. This is the catching up of true Israel, to meet him in the clouds (that is in the heavenly), and bring him down to this earth.
When Yeshua DIED, he gave up that spirit back to G-d. When he rose, he was transfigured and left as a spirit ascending to Heaven. He will return the way he left! In Spirit!
All the peoples of earth are temples. (I will raise this temple in 3 days). We have an outer sanctuary, an inner sanctuary, and our own “little room” (holy of holies) where G-d lives. “And in my fathers house… are many rooms!”
We must do whatever it takes to wake people up! Go to the window and scream that you’re mad as hell and not going to take it anymore! Set all the clocks to 11:11, tell people this is what 2012 is… whatever it takes to get them to listen, whatever they’ll listen too.
July 19th, 2010 - 22:20
Hi David,
I can appreciate many of your thoughts and views… and thank you for taking the time to comment here.
Personally, when I read Jeremiah 31:31-40, I don’t see any indication that the Torah itself will be new and completely different than what was given to Moshe. The marriage covenant will be renewed, and the application and receipt of the Torah will be different… because it will be put in our inward parts… causing us to outwardly walk in a path that is inwardly driven… instead of externalities enforcing obedience. However, just because the receipt and conformity to the covenant is different… this doesn’t mean the agreement of the covenant is different. For example, the Father indicates in Jeremiah 31:33 “I shall put My Torah in their inward parts, and write it on their hearts”.
Notice He didn’t say “And I shall put my OTHER Torah in their inward parts”. =)
It is my view that the Torah is Light and the Way of Life! That was also David’s view. Light does NOT change. The Way of Life does NOT mystically change into some different pathWAY of Life. But there is something that will inwardly change in us when the new covenant is established… and we will be able to walk the Right Path with that empowerment to do so… and to do so in LOVE… with LOVE as the sole motivation. This doesn’t mean the path (i.e., Torah) has changed.
I’m curious what your view would be in the future… when some person is found guilty… for example… of molesting and murdering little children. Would you say that just because Yeshua paid for that sin with His death, that somehow the guilty person should be allowed to carry on in the midst of the people as if nothing happen? No, actually the person would be justifiably put to death by an authorized court of elders… he wouldn’t be stoned to death by vigilante Torah-keepers. My perception of some of your statements is that Yeshua’s death somehow mysterious removed the arm of Justice from the Father. In this, I think you’re gravely in error. Even Revelation indicates that the Messiah will rule with a rod of iron. It doesn’t say anything about a silk-padded rod of iron. He is merciful, but He is also JUST.
By the way, I’ve written a short semi-related article on this subject: Are We under a “New Covenant” Yet?
July 20th, 2010 - 11:07
This eternal Torah is written in our inner hearts, and was an enactment of G-d himself. When we forget this and fall out of Love, we fall into sin and then are turned over to tormenters. If we rebel against the eternal Torah that is spoken of Jeremiah, by forsaking the work Yeshua did, and instead say “one must do this or do that” we are adding or taking away from that law… and yes, forsaking that has consequences.
I’ve been a messianic for seven years now and finally call myself a Hebraic Christian.
Yes, today’s rabbinical courts have interpreted it so… (2 witnesses, 2 warnings of capital offense, acknowledgment of offense, and and non-repentance) I know.. Trust me I know.
The problem is that this is Talmudical. Not all Talmud is bad, but it is man-made. Today it is a great source of learning and contains rabbinical proceedings on every bit of law concerning civil. Have you seen Nehemia’s “Greek Jesus vs Hebrew Yeshua”? It is an enlightening video about how our Pro-Torah Yeshua was extremely against anything that wasn’t the written word of G-d especially Oral Tradition. This is because by making laws such as (you must wash hands or, you can’t walk this far without a head covering) they made it impossible for anyone to follow the 613 mitzvot of G-d’s Torah. They even said G-d has no right to interpret His law for “the Torah is not in Heaven”. Jeremiah spoke harshly against this, likening Yisrael a whore like Bavel with Cohenim who teach lies.
But, in those days G-d Himself said he would intact a NEW covenant. Not a re-newed. That is the mindless banter of today’s Orthodox Rabbinical religious authority through which many messianic are dangerously caught up in. That is the spiritual equivalent of the trinitarian pagan church belief! Same wolf, different sheep dress.
Trust me I know, I’ve been there, I’m telling you. The word for “fullfill” that Yeshua used is defined as: To ENACT. In Jeremiah G-d is saying he will make a new Enactment. Even the rabbis say in that time, the time to come there will be no division and everyone will know G-d as it is in their hearts.
Please please please, do not for the love of G-d and his Messiah, do not do as the Christians do: Throw away one half of the bible, without understanding the other half! Do not go from bondage to bondage. Please do not give up half truth for half truth.
At least, please as your brother in Love… at least check out what I am saying by searching the prophets and the Torah and the words of Yeshua and of the apostles.
I’ve struggled for years to apply Jewish hermeneutics to make the entire thing fit together… it can’t. Not even the brilliant idea that Torah is for Jews and not for Gentiles… it still doesn’t. What you are discussing used to be my life’s work. And I was tormented for all that time with nothing but uncontrollable lucid dreams (dreaming but awake), and nightmares, clinical major depression…
When I came to where I am today, I sleep sweet, I have no nightmares, my depression is gone completely. The colors even appear to be brighter!
Look into it, and search yourself and the scriptures. Test my words and see if you can find them to be true.
If you’re wrong, and it “is” finished, and this is the Covenant of Mercy. Preaching that Yeshua had any other commandment than to love one another has he loves us, would be actually changing the Torah spoken about in Jeremiah. A covenant “nothing like that of the fathers when taken from egypt (Moshe)”, one that he spoke of would be eternal, and would not pass until heaven and earth pass… if you are wrong.
If you are right, then I am just some man that somehow happened to have a larger heart than that of G-d. There are two thresholds here at work. This is the right side of Mercy. I bid you come up here and lead others. Do not stay on the side of Judgement and make null what Moshiach did for all.
There is nothing wrong with keeping Kosher, wearing tzit tzit, growing a beard, or following the Moedim. I do today out of love and love alone, not out of bondage. The eternal TORAH has always been to walk in love, to be just like G-d as He is perfect and holy. Deviation from that love in all it’s forms (anger, hatred, war, lust, division, hiding the truth of revelation of G-d) that deviation would lead in death. It wasn’t revealed to Moshe that G-d was love. They had to study the Torah to learn it! They were given it written down what would happen if they sinned… perhaps it was better then to have life cut short than to let sin corrupt the people and the whole world. The revelation of G-d through Yeshua was to Love… Because he was perfect and kept all of the law, he had no evil inclination, thus all that was left is a pure manifestation of G-d. That is our portion. All was stripped away and the very essence of G-d was placed into our hearts, this is the Law… as all the law and the prophets hang on but these two! You shall love the LORD your G-d with all of your soul all of your strength and all of your might, and you shall love your neighbor as your self!”
Trust me dude, I’ve been EXACTLY where you were. I made it my work to say EXACTLY the same stuff… it is not the word of G-d that you are preaching for the purpose of bringing about the world to come here and making it Gan Eden. Come out of Egypt!
Please I’m not trying to offend you! I’m doing my duty to correct you because I love you. Don’t move from pagan idolatry and more rules and creeds, back to the past to something that was atoned for with a perfect sacrifice and superseded by a new covenant… what benefit us to make the work of the cross void and to teach others? Half-truth for half-truth?
At least look and put on my goggles for a moment, not to beleive me straight away, but to check out what I’m saying and study it with the mind of trying to affirm it, just so you have an objective view. Once you have that you can ponder for yourself if this is right or wrong. I’m confident this is the truth and If your not satisfied within 30 days you can return your unused portion get your money-back.
July 20th, 2010 - 12:39
Yes, I’m very familiar with the Talmudist vs. Karaite debate. I have Nehemia’s video here: http://jewsandjoes.com/crash-course-in-phariseeism-rabbinic-orthodoxy.html
The verse you quoted simply confirms what I said about the way the covenant was formally enforced by externalities. Look how the Husband says, “I TOOK them by the hand to LEAD them out of Egypt”. Again, what is going to change is this: He is going to LEAD us INWARDLY. He isn’t going to have to force us out of Egypt and out of the ways of Egypt. We are going to willingly and inwardly desire the Light and the Way of the Father’s Torah (HIS TORAH).
In a sense, this is already happening to many people… but the re-marriage hasn’t happened yet for the corporate assembly/commonwealth of Israel… that will happen in the future: Revelation 19:7-9 …and THEN we will be CHANGED!!!!!!!!
Basically, what I get from everything you just said is a bunch of flowery non-sense… which has virtually no applicable practical meaning in real, every day life. You speak alot about LOVE. Well… Yeshua said the entire Torah is summed up by two things… loving Elohim and loving your neighbor (Matthew 22:36-40). What does that mean? To me, it means the Torah describes in great detail HOW we are to love the Creator and to love our neighbor. I get the impression you just do whatever feels right… and feels the most LOVING. “Lets not offend anyone’s beliefs or practices… lets just LOVE them… lets just all give each other one great BIG HUG… and LUUUUVVVVEEE each other” oh oh… “you just tossed your child into the fire to Moloch? Oh that’s okay… we still LOVE you” … “You just had a baby and then left it in a cold dark room to die? Oh that is okay… we still LOVE you… for be it from me to say anything to hurt your feelings”.
That is not LOVE, David. That is standing naked in the middle of the highway holding a heart-shaped pillow… and hoping no one takes your pillow.
The more I think about the LOVE the Torahless limp-noodle Christian Church has given the world… the hotter my blood boils. Hundreds of millions of unborn children murdered… that is the LOVE… the Christian LOVE nations have given the world. Lets cloak fascist capitalism in Christianity and rob entire nations of their resources… that is the LOVE we’ve experienced.
When the covenant of Jeremiah 31 is applied (and it has certainly not been applied yet), we will INWARDLY know in great DETAIL how and what we are to do in every day to day life… in how we are to LOVE the Father and how to LOVE each other… but right now, it is left up to every Tom, Dick, and Hairy… IF the WRITTEN Torah is not consulted.
Personally, I don’t think much is going to be amended in what was WRITTEN by the Ruakh via Moshe and Joshua. What is going to change… as I said before… is our INWARD heart compulsion in DOING what has already been WRITTEN.
No longer just another one of Satan’s fake LOVE puppets… signing off… with no hugs,
Hanok
July 20th, 2010 - 14:12
(Added) As a correction…. “yes, it’s a renewed covenant, but it’s like a renewal of wedding vows. The first Ketubah gone, the second one with much more sweeter promises and ordinances.
I remember when I got married to my wife Elishevah… when we met, she was married to another, and that marriage was horrible and loveless. She left him we got married and we had an orthodox Ketubah, we then had a son, we had a son Yehoshua, and we had him brought up according to the laws of Moses…. but the thing about our Ketubah, It had all kinds of rules in it about money and inheritances, and all kinds of stuff.
Eventually, everything went wrong in our marriage… We were always telling eachother what to do and what not to do. Eventually our marriage was in pieces from disconnection that started with perceived (disobedience) of one another, I failed to love, she just got cold. Finally I left the house and let her have it… and sent our son to be with his grandparents for the time-being as I had to go home to my parents. …we went separate ways. She left me and did whatever, but still demanded an inheritance from me; thus I payed all the bills still, let her have the car, and the house etc etc…. I turned my back away. I eventually in my anger, burned the Ketubah. Thinking to put her away… with divorce… but then G-d showed me that I should be merciful as He is merciful, and that He will judge, and not I. As in my youth I should have died multiple times (so many close calls) but for some reason I’m still here.
I understood and I vowed to be betrothed, bought new rings and left. It has today, been almost one year…
It’s a fun parallel my life of Yisrael and G-d… The separation and betrothal, of not living with my betrothed for a year are very talmudical (in parallel).
Today, there is a new Ketubah in our hearts. Her and I will eventually renew our vows – and the new one, will not have all the regulations of the first, as they were only shadows of what the true law was underneath. They were only the outer garment, of the innermost Holy Eternal Torah that was underneath. Unbounded, infinite, never-ending, unconditional love for one another.
This is as it is, with what has been done for us by G-d through Moshaich… Jew, Christian, Bhuddist, Hindu, Muslim, Shintoist, Atheist, “whatever-ist”. Is Mishneh Torah, Gemara, Talmud etc bad? No, these are pearls of wisdom of the sages and I would not teach any culture to give up their heritage. But Jews today understand that all these laws are nothing compared to G-d’s law. They have not forsaken it and NOT LIKE THE handfull of CORRUPT JEWS 2000 years ago, they have amended their ways to teach this same thing! 2000 years ago the priesthood was corrupt… but we must KEEP in mind that today’s Orthodox Judaism (as Holy as the Jews of today are, who are also under grace and salvation!), is the continued tradition that was started by “those” few bad Jews in the bible. 2000 years ago they did not teach that G-d’s law superseded man’s law, but the opposite. This is not so today… thus they teach the only law that matters is to Love G-d and our neighbor; and all is commentary. Thus they are teaching Torah. But the Torah is not to be confused today as the 613 mitzvot of the Mosaic Covenant… the inner Torah, is the commandment to “Love” which supersedes and makes null all the other ones by default if one is following the commandment to Love.
However, one must remember, all of today’s Rabbinical opinion on the new covenant is suspect because it was handed down by the Rabbinical Courts….”fathers”. Who we KNOW were corrupt. Because they did not get the revelation of truth. (Yeshua wasn’t Messiah to them and was killed. So of course why in the world would they assume we are under the covenant Of Mercy & Yechad?)
Just like many of today’s doctrines of christianity are EXREMELY suspect: because it was given to us by the Roman church “fathers”… who we KNOW are corrupt, who themselves made pagan tradition more important than the revelation of truth. Through whom we were taught that only thru Christian “religious tradition” can anyone be saved.
Both people (our fathers) were guided by a spirit that caused them to deny the Father, blaspheme against his Ruach haKodesh, and “erase” the work of messiah
We (Both Jew and Christian) inherited LIES! Our “father’s” taught us lies! Judaism figured it out before we did! I have not come to teach against the Torah, I’ve come to promote it! I’m not on one side or the other. We must as true messianic believers conform our minds to this concept, and only then will we be able to reconcile this “perceived” replacement theology.
Jews don’t need to convert to anything, they just need to follow the commandment to Love. They can keep on doing as they are doing, as it is what G-d put in the hearts of their nation… they are doing right by G-d and by what G-d said for them to do as a nation. As long as they keep teaching, “the rest is commentary…” Teaching otherwise is blaspheme!
Gentiles don’t need to convert to Judaism, and teach others to do so as a “requirement”. They only need to love. Teaching anything else is blaspheme!
That is my testimony…
October 28th, 2010 - 16:24
Are we under the New Covenant As the Church likes to say or the RE-Newed Covenant like some Messianics say?Well let us take a look at both text that are used to base their doctrines on.The most popular proof text they use is Yeremiyahu (Jeremiah) 31:31-34 So lets look at this proof text.It reads “Behold, days are coming,” declares YHVH, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Yisrael and with the house of Yahudah, 32not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Mitzryim, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares YHVH. 33“But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Yisrael after those days,” declares YHVH, “I will put My Torah within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their G-d, and they shall be My people. 34“They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know YHVH,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares YHVH, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”
What covenant was made with Yisrael when they were brought out of Mitzriyim (Egypt)?Was it the covenant of Circumcision of the flesh?Answer,NO Circumcision is an everlasting covenant which never ends.So what covenant is this referring to? Answer,Torah.Torah was established at Mt Sinai when YHVH took Yisrael by the hand to bring them out of Mitzriyim. Has Torah been replaced or negated? Answer, No.Yeshua even said in Mattityahu 5:18 that until Shamiyim (heaven) and Ha-Aretz(the Earth) pass away not the smallest stroke(Yod) shall be changed from the Torah until ALL things are fulfilled.But the KEY component of this passage in Yeremiyahu is in verse 34 where it states” They will NOT teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know YHVH,’ for they will all know Me.Notice It stated They will not teach again to know YHVH.This points to evangelism and preaching. Biblically what does it mean to Know YHVH?Remember the Bible interprets it’self.1 Yochanon (John) 2:4 states “If someone claims, “I know YHVH,” but doesn’t obey His commandments, that person is a liar and is not living in the truth.”So to know YHVH is living in obedience to his Commandments.So after this New Covenant is established there will no longer be a need to teach preach or evangelize to the world for ALL men will know YHVH and be Obeying His commandments.
The writer of Hebrews in the 8th chapter deals with this very same issue.But the KEY is the 13th verse it states” When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. The KEY to this verse in Context is that the old covenant is BECOMING Obsolete GROWING old and IS ready to disappear.This book was written 10 years after the Death Burial and Resurrection of Messiah and It doesn NOT state that in fact the new covenant has been established But that the Old is Becoming obsolete.
Until Messiah returns we are still under the Old Covenant.The New covenant has not yet been established.Messiah said until all things be fulfilled Nothing shall be changed from the Torah or any of the 613 mitzvot which is the Old covenant that is still in effect today.This is the 2 proof text New Covenant proponents use to state their claim Yet they fail to look at the Context of the Whole passage.The only thing Messiah promised would come after his Death was the Comforter.The Ruach HaKodesh Brings forth Shalom in times of persecution, empowers believers to over come the nature to sin, and give us gifts to be used to spread the Messege of Torah to the ends of the earth.The Ruach is NOT the New or ReNewed Covenant.But rather the Power to establish YHVH’s Name on the earth in preparation for Messiah’s return when all things shall be restored and THEN “AFTER THOSE DAYS” the NEW COVENANT as spoken about in Yeremiyahu 31 will be Established for the millinal reign.Shalom and Blessings
December 27th, 2010 - 20:55
Good for you, sir. The truth never turns out to be an ass, but an ass often turns at the truth. Let wisdom teach us, ’cause I’m pretty sure she knows better. BTW, I was looking for your writing YeHovah, can’t seem to find it…
yosef
December 28th, 2010 - 22:29
Hi Yosef,
Is this the article you’re referring to? http://www.facebook.com/#!/note.php?note_id=148441341847457
Hanok
July 23rd, 2011 - 02:23
Torah is Perfect.(Tehillim 19:7)
When someone is practicing The WRITTEN TORAH ( meaning: the pure one without Takanot/ man-made Laws) and he is doing It (The written Torah) in the Faith and Power of The LIVING TORAH Y’Shua HaMashiach……it is PERFECT.
THANKS a lot to Nehemiah who help us the follower of Y’shua to be perfect, as Y’shua has instructed us in Matthew 5:48 ( Paul advice in 2 Corinthians 13:11 ) .
Let us learn more from The Karaites,our ‘Elder Brother’ about the real/pure Written Torah .
October 7th, 2011 - 15:15
I have known Nehemiah Gordon to be an ass that lies to Yah’s people. He still employs rabbinic deception in his teachings to fool the gullible people who listen to him, who don’t know any better. Furthermore, I find him to be an arrogant hypocrite when it comes to Torah, treating people in a most GREEK manner, that is anti-Torah. His air of academic superiority I find to be the stench of death, and I pity the fools who swallow all he says as they reject the words of Messiah and Paul against the ‘concision’ who sit in judgment over believers.
October 7th, 2011 - 22:12
William,
I have never met Nehemiah Gordon, I only know of him, so I cannot personally comment on him as you have. I wanted to agree with your general message though, the message being that we, as believers in Yeshua, have already grasped the message: Yeshua IS the promised Messiah. The Torah points to Yeshua and screams out that He is the promised Messiah and that the Savior Himself is YHVH God. We are told that the Son will be called the Everlasting Father and the Mighty God. And YES, we are even told that the Messiah’s name will be Yeshua (Joshua) in Zechariah 6!
Gentile believers accepted on faith the message that Yeshua is Messiah. The Hebrews *who have been brought up* studying Torah have an advantage of having read the scriptures…but if they do not believe those scriptures which point to Yeshua as Messiah then all is lost for that individual.
As Gentile believers we can be *blessed* by our Hebrew roots but we already have what those roots point *to*, our Messiah. The Hebrew roots serve to confirm the faith we already have and help us to better obey our Father.
If Nehemiah Gordon is not a believer in Yeshua, then he sadly is the scriptural definition of anti-christ, someone who denies that God, Yeshua Messiah, has come in the flesh. We either trust the apostle John on this definition or we don’t. Do we get to pick and choose which parts of Johns message we believe? Those thinking that giving a non-believer, cut-off natural branch, a position to speak in the churches is a good idea or even acceptable unto the Father are sorely mistaken. God spoke about letting unbelievers take the lead in service in His Torah and it wasn’t good! Also Isaiah, who clearly speaks of Yeshua/YHVH says that if one doesn’t speak according to the Law and to the Testimony (prophets), it is because there is no light in them. The law and the testimony speak of *Yeshua* and even do so by name if one looks closely. Yeshua said Moses spoke about Him but if they did believe Him (Yeshua) because they don’t really believe Moses!
We are only causing the very soul of Nehemiah Gordon to be put in jeopardy by even allowing him to speak at any gathering of believers. We are also putting him in a position to lead away weak believers. Are there not any believing Jews who can speak on these matters?!! Must it be a non-believing Hebrew? Why not a believing Hebrew or even a believing Gentile who was brought up observing Torah?!
Blessings in our Yeshua
October 11th, 2011 - 22:23
Rachel,
There have been entire “Christian” nations who decided they no longer wanted any Jews living in their midst because those Jews may actually speak and influence the Christian majority. Much of the impetus for the many Jewish expulsions were derived from what you just said… taking it from a congregational level and expanding to an entire nation. I know you think you have a pretty and polished foundation for what your asking, but actually there is much danger in what you and others are calling for.
I wonder how many of you allow information to flow through your TVs via non-believing sources? How many of you double-check encyclopedic sources before digesting the reference material?
Nehemia is a valuable resource, in my opinion. His confidence may be tweaked in and/or confused with arrogance on occasion, but largely I think he is trustworthy and reliable.
Hanok
October 27th, 2011 - 23:21
I have read all the coments and it sadden me to hear such talk. I met and talk with Nehemia on 2 seperate occassions. Frankly I find him refreshing! Sure he does not share our view of Yeshua being the Mashiach…..that is “YET”…… YHWH touches those hearts in his time not ours…….we have all come to have this truth not of our own making, YHWH gave it to us. Nehemia has been given part and his knowledge as a non-believing Jew is more believable then that of a lot of so call Christian Pastors who have an agenda. Nehemia has NEVER tried to use his influence to sway believer in Yeshua to turn away from that belief….he makes very clear his interest is strictly from a scholars view. Lets face it how many JEWS that do NOT believe in Yeshua validate his life and what he taught? Nehemia as a Jew who is Non-believing is MORE believable. As far as Torah…….for me the written Torah is very valid today whether you are a Jew or a Gentile and will always be valid. Yeshua did not come to start a NEW religion he came to show us how to do it right. Even when it is all done with and all will walk in PERECT knowledge of YHWH we will still be living TORAH the difference we will not need to teach it or be taught because we will have the FULL knowledge of it in our whole being. There will not be any arguing or dialog between one another because it will be written on our hearts we will know as we know it just like well …like when our stomachs hurt because it needs food we know to eat or when our throats are dry we know to drink……I am not good with words so please forgive me…YHWH did not mean for this to be complicated….we make it complicted. The fact is the christians have partly right and the jews have it part right…….what is happening today is some are realizing this on both sides and coming to a better understanding and living TORAH or at least tryng to to the best of ones ability the way Yeshua taught. You are probably wondering if I am a Jew or a Christian….I am niether…though I have a Jewish heart..I love the jewish people and I always have since I was very small even though I never new anyone wh was jewish until I was bout 25 yrs old. Still all my life I have been pulled for some unknown reason to have a deep yearning for my jewish brethern………I do NOT consider myself a christian all though at one time I did….I am a Talmidim……and I thirst for word of YHWH. I do NOT celebrate any of the pagan holidays and I do celebrate YHWH feast………….and the shabbat is Friday evening to Saturday evening……I light candles but I am careful not to say YHWH commanded me to light them. I make challah bread….I do this because it put my home in the spiritual mood I want it to be in for Shabbat…….and I fel that much closer to YHWH……… I wish you all the best, please try to remember it is not about religion it is about relationship…….relationship to YHWH and to one another.
Shalom, Donna
February 16th, 2012 - 13:39
How come it is okay for Christians to convert people, but Jews are immediately regarded with suspicion for appearing to do the same thing?
February 16th, 2012 - 13:48
Barbara,
Because Christians are more spiritually evolved than Jews, didn’t you know that? Its called Theological Darwinism, I think.
Just kidding just kidding…
Hanok
March 25th, 2012 - 10:36
“But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, were grafted in their place to share the rich root of the olive tree, do not boast over the branches.”
All are/were branches, none are the root of “the faith”, neither the Jews nor those grafted in.