SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT ALL THE PROPHETIC WORDS ABOUT THE 12 TRIBES ARE DEBUNKED? WAS ALL THAT WAS SAID ABOUT THE 12 SONS OF JACOB (10 + 2 FROM JOSEPH) FULFILLED BY THE TIME OF THE FLOOD? WHAT ABOUT THOSE 12 TRIBES NOW? DO THEY EVEN EXIST?
I ENJOY THE 5 MINUTE UPDATES.
Gene,
I’m going to assume you aren’t yelling at me and are simply to lazy to take the Caps-Lock off.
Did you read the entire post? I’m not debunking anything. I’m showing that exponential mathematics explains how the promise of Genesis 48:19 could have been fulfilled within the current world population… i.e., Ephraim currently has a multitude of nations which descended from him (although they aren’t aware of it). I’m a bit baffled that you aren’t seeing that that is what I’m arguing for.
The Flood happened before Jacob or his sons existed… so of course I do not think the promise was fulfilled before the Flood. {{{More baffledment}}} My point is that a great multitude developed in a short time before the Flood… and a great multitude has developed again after the Flood… and both times it was done in rather short order.
Notice in the picture I created that Adam and Ephraim existed on separate sides of the Flood. The linear timeline goes from the left to the right. =)
I have waited so long for someone to do this kind of study, i spotted this on facebook, and i have to say that now i am going to do some math too.
This plus analyzing everyones CMH could easily tell who’s Israelite and who isn’t.
After all, all Israelites must have parts of CMH, for Levi is son of Jacob.
If the CMH mutations (and that is what they are, “mutations”) occurred in Levi’s y-DNA or one of his sons, then no… the CMH wouldn’t be present in the rest of Levi’s brothers nor their descendants (i.e., 10-Israelites). For example, some of my recent paternal ancestors do no have the deletions and copy errors that I have in my own y-DNA. I’ve seen direct father-son comparisons where in one generation the son has different markers, but of course still of the same haplotype because the bulk of the DNA is copied correctly and passed on.
If CMH occured in Levi, how then is it possible that many Jews, E haplogroup Samaritans, and other people around the world have it?
Or could it be that they are all of Levi, no one knows, but it is for sure there are millions who have over 4 “parts” of 12-CMH.
Are some parts of CMH more accurate (do not mutation as often) than other parts?
If for example person has 5 full CMH “matches”, and 4 “matches” one number +/- (like if CMH= 5, the person has in that place 4) short, what do you think it proves?
Joel,
I think you’re misunderstanding the Wikipedia article or some other article that includes the subject of the Samaritan Kohanim. The Cohen Modal Haplotype is found only within Haplogroup J, not Haplogroup E. Furthermore, the Samaritans are not purely Haplogroup E. I’ll try to find the study details, but I’m fairly certain the Samaritans are largely made up of y-Hg J, but their most prominent priest family is y-Hg E. I could be wrong on that part, but I’m sure the presence of CMH has only been found within y-Hg J.
The CMH is still a controversial subject among geneticists, but obviously some of them believed it “proved” common ancestry of the Levitical priestly class… this is why they named it the “COHEN Modal Haplotype”. If they would have thought it represented and could be found within all descendants of Jacob, they would have likely called it the “Jacob Modal Haplotype (JMH)” or the “Ya’acov Modal Haplotype (YMH)”. =)
However, there is a developing and wide-spread notion that only Haplogroup J males are legitimate bloodline Hebrews… and this is largely rooted in the belief that the founder of Haplogroup J lived about 30,000 thousand years ago… so hence, only those with the CMH or within the broader group of J could be direct descendants of Jacob because of the assumed slow rate of mutation. What I try to get people to questions is this: what are the geneticists using as evidence for the 30,000 year origin estimation? One thing is for sure, they aren’t using exponential population growth equations. Primarily, they are using radio-metric dating techniques and other re-enforcing false assumptions which seem to fit well with their Darwinian paradigm. Any other evidence that disrupts that paradigm is strictly forbidden and ridiculed. The speed of mutation rates and the factors effecting those rates have been widely under-estimated.
The founder of y-Haplogroup J very likely lived only 3,000 years ago… and the studies I sited earlier in this article lend much credibility to that possibility.
March 22nd, 2010 - 11:31
SO ARE YOU SAYING THAT ALL THE PROPHETIC WORDS ABOUT THE 12 TRIBES ARE DEBUNKED? WAS ALL THAT WAS SAID ABOUT THE 12 SONS OF JACOB (10 + 2 FROM JOSEPH) FULFILLED BY THE TIME OF THE FLOOD? WHAT ABOUT THOSE 12 TRIBES NOW? DO THEY EVEN EXIST?
I ENJOY THE 5 MINUTE UPDATES.
March 22nd, 2010 - 12:21
Gene,
I’m going to assume you aren’t yelling at me and are simply to lazy to take the Caps-Lock off.
Did you read the entire post? I’m not debunking anything. I’m showing that exponential mathematics explains how the promise of Genesis 48:19 could have been fulfilled within the current world population… i.e., Ephraim currently has a multitude of nations which descended from him (although they aren’t aware of it). I’m a bit baffled that you aren’t seeing that that is what I’m arguing for.
The Flood happened before Jacob or his sons existed… so of course I do not think the promise was fulfilled before the Flood. {{{More baffledment}}} My point is that a great multitude developed in a short time before the Flood… and a great multitude has developed again after the Flood… and both times it was done in rather short order.
Notice in the picture I created that Adam and Ephraim existed on separate sides of the Flood. The linear timeline goes from the left to the right. =)
April 16th, 2010 - 14:29
I have waited so long for someone to do this kind of study, i spotted this on facebook, and i have to say that now i am going to do some math too.
This plus analyzing everyones CMH could easily tell who’s Israelite and who isn’t.
After all, all Israelites must have parts of CMH, for Levi is son of Jacob.
Thanks, and blessings!
April 16th, 2010 - 16:09
Hi Joel,
Thank you for the comment.
If the CMH mutations (and that is what they are, “mutations”) occurred in Levi’s y-DNA or one of his sons, then no… the CMH wouldn’t be present in the rest of Levi’s brothers nor their descendants (i.e., 10-Israelites). For example, some of my recent paternal ancestors do no have the deletions and copy errors that I have in my own y-DNA. I’ve seen direct father-son comparisons where in one generation the son has different markers, but of course still of the same haplotype because the bulk of the DNA is copied correctly and passed on.
April 17th, 2010 - 02:36
If CMH occured in Levi, how then is it possible that many Jews, E haplogroup Samaritans, and other people around the world have it?
Or could it be that they are all of Levi, no one knows, but it is for sure there are millions who have over 4 “parts” of 12-CMH.
Are some parts of CMH more accurate (do not mutation as often) than other parts?
If for example person has 5 full CMH “matches”, and 4 “matches” one number +/- (like if CMH= 5, the person has in that place 4) short, what do you think it proves?
April 17th, 2010 - 11:11
Joel,
I think you’re misunderstanding the Wikipedia article or some other article that includes the subject of the Samaritan Kohanim. The Cohen Modal Haplotype is found only within Haplogroup J, not Haplogroup E. Furthermore, the Samaritans are not purely Haplogroup E. I’ll try to find the study details, but I’m fairly certain the Samaritans are largely made up of y-Hg J, but their most prominent priest family is y-Hg E. I could be wrong on that part, but I’m sure the presence of CMH has only been found within y-Hg J.
The CMH is still a controversial subject among geneticists, but obviously some of them believed it “proved” common ancestry of the Levitical priestly class… this is why they named it the “COHEN Modal Haplotype”. If they would have thought it represented and could be found within all descendants of Jacob, they would have likely called it the “Jacob Modal Haplotype (JMH)” or the “Ya’acov Modal Haplotype (YMH)”. =)
However, there is a developing and wide-spread notion that only Haplogroup J males are legitimate bloodline Hebrews… and this is largely rooted in the belief that the founder of Haplogroup J lived about 30,000 thousand years ago… so hence, only those with the CMH or within the broader group of J could be direct descendants of Jacob because of the assumed slow rate of mutation. What I try to get people to questions is this: what are the geneticists using as evidence for the 30,000 year origin estimation? One thing is for sure, they aren’t using exponential population growth equations. Primarily, they are using radio-metric dating techniques and other re-enforcing false assumptions which seem to fit well with their Darwinian paradigm. Any other evidence that disrupts that paradigm is strictly forbidden and ridiculed. The speed of mutation rates and the factors effecting those rates have been widely under-estimated.
The founder of y-Haplogroup J very likely lived only 3,000 years ago… and the studies I sited earlier in this article lend much credibility to that possibility.