1. 

   Judah Gabriel Himango
   February 27th, 2010 - 00:47

   Hehehe. You’re dead on, Hanok, loved this post.
2. 

   Donna Teague
   February 28th, 2010 - 17:47

   Thank you for exposing this wide-spread deceptive and racial teaching that is prevelant on both sides of the color fence.
3. 

   Robertd
   June 1st, 2010 - 08:07

   Not according to Wikipedia!! In fact, it really states something that is quite laughable in a sense. What I get from it, is that Israel, wants to bomb it’s relatives!!

   It says:

   In contrast, some recent genetic studies found that analysis of the DNA of Semitic-speaking peoples suggests that they have some common ancestry. Though no significant common mitochondrial results have been yielded, Y-chromosomal links between Semitic-speaking Near-Eastern peoples like Arabs, Assyrians and Hebrews have proved fruitful, despite differences contributed from other groups (see Y-chromosomal Aaron). The studies attribute this correlation to a common Near Eastern origin, since Semitic-speaking Near Easterners from the Fertile Crescent (including Jews) were found to be more closely related to non-Semitic speaking Near Easterners (such as Iranians, Anatolians, and Caucasians) than to other Semitic-speakers (such as Gulf Arabs, Ethiopian Semites, and North African Arabs).[9][10][11]
4. 

   Hanok
   June 4th, 2010 - 17:17

   And Wikipedia is a stellar source, yes?

   That whole paragraph is loaded with controversy. First of all, what or who is a “Semitic-speaking people”? The work of Isaac Mozeson virtually proves that English and many other Indo-European-type languages originated from or were highly influenced by ancient Hebrew or closely related Semetic languages.

   And linguistically, who are modern day Caucasians or Anatolians today? What evidence is there that they were non-Semitc?

   The field of linguistics is probably the most hotly debated amongst all other fields. If you want to increase your chances to see an argument, but two or three linguists in a room together. So making genetic arguments based upon linguistics alone will be ripe with contentious conclusions.
5. 

   Carlos
   July 31st, 2010 - 19:43

   The fact that the previous comment is filled with controversial conclusions is an example of how tampering with facts can lead to a state of mass confusion. The european languages have no semitic roots. Any arguments by linguists will only stipulate to that fact if they are accredited scholars. Everyone knows that the european language gets its roots from latin or romance vocabulary. Even germantic branch of that language can trace its roots to latin or romance beginnings. Who are the semites? If you look at who speak a semitic language you will find that its beginnings are in west and east africa. In case you did not know this, the middle east use to be known as east africa. It was the expeditions by lawrance of arabia campaigning there for england that led to that regions’ new identification. This is how europe can become relevant in east africa. Remember Greece renamed Khemet Eygpt and Cush Ethopia etc. It is ethiopia that is believed to be the beginnning of semitic languages. Why? It is the only country with multiple types of semitic vocabulary. Think of dna when you are in country that have a very large gene pool, you are considered the source or beginning of a genetic process. Language is no different. And, Ethiopia has the most diverse branches of the semitic languages. But, this does not mean that europe does not have some semitic vocabulary just that it is not its language of root. The explanation for europe’s having some semitic words more likely than not was introduced by semitic travellers or traders. Or, like the khazars empire, that aquired its semitic vocabulary by converting to Jewdisim. A religion with deep roots in the hebrew language a semitic branch of languages.
6. 

   Hanok
   July 31st, 2010 - 20:43

   Hi Carlos,
   I agree… to some degree… but check out the book “The Word: The Dictionary that Reveals the Hebrew roots of English” by Isaac E. Mozeson. I reference it frequently… and it is truly amazing. The influence of Hebrew is too great to have been just Hebrew travelers. Actually, personally I believe the vast majority of the Indo-European population has Hebrew ancestors… though of course they have ancestors who aren’t Hebrew as well… but the Hebrew language influenced Europe because Hebrew-speaking peoples moved there in antiquity during multiple migrations, pathways, and settlements…. ranging many hundreds of years… and likely speaking different dialects of the same original language. Also look into the study of Edenics… which Mozeson is a big contributor. Fascinating stuff!

   Hanok
7. 

   Neyo Webster
   August 29th, 2010 - 12:47

   Genetic tests are BS and politically twisted. The geneticists, funded by the likes of the Rockefellers, said the Egyptians were white but recorded history and archaeology proved otherwise. Arthur Koestler, who is a white Jew, did not invent the Khazar story. It was documented by other white Jewish scholars, namely Heinrich Graetz in his 5-volume magnum opus “The History of the Jews,” originally published in 1895.

   Here are some other quotes regarding Eastern European Ashkenazic Jewry from leading scholastic authorities:

   The Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition, Vol. 5, page 41, states “Edom is in modern Jewry.”

   H. G. Wells, in his classic work OUTLINE OF HISTORY verifies that millenniums ago the Edomites became “Jews.” But then he goes on and gives us another trail to follow in correctly identifying the people today “who call themselves Jews.” He says that these “Idumeans” joined with a “Turkish” people of Southern Russia (the Khazars), who also “became Jews,” and BOTH make up the present day “Jews.” Mr. Wells concludes, “The main part of Jewry NEVER WAS IN JUDEA AND HAD NEVER COME OUT OF JUDEA!”

   Prof. Roland B. Dixon, of Harvard, wrote in 1923, “The most important single factor, however, in the differentiation of these Jews of the Asiatic borderland…WAS THE CONVERSION TO Judaism IN THE EIGHTH CENTURY OF THE KHAZARS. In these (Khazars )…We may in all probability see the origin of the great mass of the east European Jews of today.”

   The Bible tells us that the descendants of Japheth whom Ashkenaz (Ashkenazi Jews) is apart are Gentiles and not sons of Shem:

   “Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. And the sons of Javan; Elishah, and Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.” (Genesis 10:1-5)

   …And the History Channel cannot be trusted…it is laughable to even use them as a source…they are true Gatekeepers for sure.

   Shalom.
8. 

   Neyo Webster
   August 29th, 2010 - 13:13

   …And now for the Black Hebrew case:

   “You will equally understand that most Blacks do not know that The Old and New Testaments historically, geographically, sociopolitically, racially, etc. are part and parcel of their own heritage.”

   -Dr. Yosef ben Yochannan
   Scholar, Historian, and Author of several books including We the Black Jews

   “The Ashanti people of West Africa are descendants of group of people who used to live in an ancient city named Ashan. The “ti” on the end of the name Ashan means “children of”, which makes the Ashanti people children of Ashan. This city is first written about by the prophet Joshua in chapter fifteen of his book. Joshua 15 discusses the territory /cities of the kingly tribe of Judah. Verse one says ‘This then was the lot of the tribe of the children of Judah by their families…etc.’ Joshua goes on to give the borders and boundaries of Judah. Verse 20 says ‘This is the inheritance of the tribe of the children of Judah according to their families.’ From this point Joshua begins to name the families that make up the kingly tribe of Judah. In verse 42 the city of Ashan is listed as one of the families.

   The people of Ashan left Israel between the years 70 and 135 C.E. to escape Roman persecution. The children of Ashan traveled south-west across the Egyptian desert (i.e.. The Sinai) down through Ethiopia and then west across L. Chad, Nigeria and finally settling in the “Gold Coast of West Africa” south of the Upper Volta. Throughout their travels and encounter with other kingdoms the Ashanti people lost various parts of their Judaic faith including the Torah the Prophets and the Holy Writings. When the Ashanti arrived in West Africa all they had left was the oral laws and a few traditions. The Ashanti established a West African Jewish kingdom that stretched from the below the Upper Volta to modern day Angola.

   The Ashanti are not the only African tribe of people who share this peculiar history. There is also the Yoruba, Ewe, Bantu, Fulani, the people of the Songhois kingdom and the Ibo of Nigeria as well as many, many more.”

   Data and Conclusions drawn from HEBREWISMS OF WEST AFRICA
   Joseph J. Williams

   “These facts have peculiar significance when the presence of Judaism among American Negroes is to be considered. Hundreds of thousands of slaves were brought to America from this Western Africa during the days of the traffic, beginning nearly four hundred years ago.” The author also shares: “How much more of Judaism survived among West African Negroes in that earlier time? As persecuted communities, they were rather more in danger than other Negroes of being raided by war parties and sold as slaves. It may be considered certain that many partially Judaized Negroes were among the slaves in America. How many of them might still hold some Jewish customs in their new is another question.”

   THE LOST TRIBES A MYTH: SUGGESTIONS TOWARDS REWRITING HEBREW HISTORY
   Dr. Allen H. Godbey

   “We feel safe then, in formulating our first conclusion:–Somewhere in the dim past, a wave, or more probably a series of waves, of Hebraic influence swept over Negro Africa, leaving unmistakable traces among the various tribes, where they have endured even to the present day.”

   Joseph J. Williams
   HEBREWISMS OF WEST AFRICA, p. 319

   “In the year 65 BC the Roman armies under General Pompey captured Jerusalem. In 70 AD, General Vespasian and his son Titus put an end to the Jewish state, with a great slaughter…many outrages and atrocities were committed against the residue of the people. During the period from Pompey to Julius, it has been estimated that over 1,000,000 Jews fled into Africa, fleeing from Roman persecution and slavery. The slave markets were full of black Jewish slaves.”

   -Rudolph Windsor
   FROM BABYLON TO TIMBUKTU, p. 84

   Tacitus says: “Many again say that they (the Jews) were a race of Ethiopian origin.” (Book V, Chap. 2)

   F. Ratzel says: “The entire Semitic and Hamitic population of Africa was a mulatto character which extends to the Semites outside of Africa.” (History of Mankind, Vol. II, p. 246)

   Abraham came from Ur of the Chaldees (Gen. 11, 31) Godfrey Higgins, a careful and reliable English antiquary says, “The Chaldees were originally Negroes.” (Anacalypsis, Vol. II, p. 364. New York, 1927) For the number of Jews, who entered and left Egypt, see Gen. 46:27 and Exod., 12:37. For the number of years in Egypt: Exod. 12:20.

   As regards the Negro origin of the Jew, Count Abraham Gurowski, of Poland, says, “Numbers of Jews have the greatest resemblance to American mulattoes. Sallow carnation complexion, thick lips, criped black hair. Of all the Jewish population scattered over the globe one-fourth dwells in Poland. I am therefore acquainted with their features. On my arrival in this country (the United States) I took every light colored mulatto for a Jew.” (America and Europe, p.117, N.Y., 1857)

   For a discussion at length of the Egyptian and Ethiopian origin of the Jews, see: Gerald Massey: A Book of the Beginnings, Vol. II, pt. 2, pp. 364-441, London 1881. See also Chapter, “Were the Jews Originally Negroes,” pp. 91-95, in Sex and Race, Vol. I, 1941.

   Fishberg says of the Falasha Jews: “They are of the Negro type,…the large lips, the prognathism, and frizzly hair, all point to the Negro origin.” (The Jew, p. 147.) I have seen the Falashas in Abyssinia and the Negro Jews in Egypt and the Sudan. West Africa has black Jews also.

   AND HERE IS THE HOOK RIGHT HERE:

   “Black Americans now are in position as never before in modern history to rediscover, and reclaim if they wish, a heritage which has profoundly influenced world history and mankind: the Hebrew heritage of Black Africa.”

   -Steven Jacobs, European Jewish historian
   Author of? The Hebrew Heritage of Black Africa: Fully Documented
9. 

   Neyo Webster
   August 29th, 2010 - 13:17

   …and now who would you say is more original the black Hebrew Israelite OR the white Ashkenazic Khazarian Jew?
10. 

    Hanok
    August 29th, 2010 - 13:35

    Thank you for sharing all the quotes, Neyo. I’m not at all opposed to the view that Africa has been sown and re-sown with the seed of Ephraim (AND Jew-dah). I simply find some aspects of the “Black Hebrew” movement to be just as disingenuous as the “British Israel” movement. Both very likely have the literal DNA of Jacob in varying mixtures, but promoting one at the exclusion or dismissal of the other is a debasement of what the prophecies actually indicate regarding Ephraim.

    And attacking the heritage of the Ashkenazim based upon pseudo-history regarding the Khazars is pure drivel in my opinion… and seems to completely dismiss the fact that 10-Israel and part of Jew-dah were deported by Assyria very near the region from which Khazaria sprang. From what I’ve found, the Khazars were very likely a mixture of 10-Israelites, Jews, and Japhethites.

    Kind Regards,
    Hanok
11. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 13:59

    And what of the disingenuousness and pomposity of the Ashkenazim who have taken it upon themselves to be the guardians and custodians of international Jewry? The Ashkenazim have a record of being very exclusionist and racist as I am more than sure you know. For example, what their doing to the Falashim in Israel is atrocious. The Ashkenazic indoctrination of the Ethiopian Jews with their brand of Russo-Germanic Judaism, which is Talmudism, is problematic in my estimation. Why? Because they are killing their culture through Israeli assimilationism. Integration has never been good for the preservation of anyone’s culture. The Ashkenazim know this best!

    And by the way, the Khazar argument is not “pseudo-history”…it goes back over 100 years (more, actually)… white Jewish scholars wrote about it…the history is in your body of academic literature as I have already pointed out.
12. 

    Hanok
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:19

    I am no friend to the rabbinic religious system which is largely controlled by Ashkenazi Jews (I have very strong Karaite-leanings). However, there is a difference between attacking the people and attacking the system which is propped up by a small portion of those people.

    Simply because a ‘Jew’ wrote something, doesn’t make it more credible. It amazes me how the credibility of the Jews is attacked on one hand, but then some point is accredited more weight simply because a “Jew said it”. The history of the Khazars is still being unearthed and there are many debates surging around them. Quoting some things selectively out of context can create the allusion of consensus. But there is very little consensus on the Khazars amongst scholars. Furthermore, dismissing DNA evidence in the realm of the Ashkenazi Jews is also self-defeating for the “Black Hebrew” movement. For example, they prop up their theories concerning the presence of haplgroup J in a part of the Lemba (the Cohen modal haplotype), and say ‘Look, the Lemba are Israelite and they are Black’. Then on the other hand, the Ashenazi are torn down with various historical claims, BUT the Ashenazi were used in those very comparison DNA studies to give the Lemba credibility in their migratory claims. It doesn’t make any sense to do attack on one hand and prop up on the other. The whole thing reals with racism that refuses to look beyond skin color and nose and lip shape. It is truly ridiculous. People would be surprised to know just how much of Darwinistic thought they have unwittingly imbibed.
13. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:19

    THE KHAZAR THEORY DEFENDED
    (From Jewish Sources)

    The fashion of dismissing the tale about the Khozars as also incredible and therefore untrue is no longer in vogue. Inasmuch as the famous poet philosopher Judah Halevi (1085-1140) founded his Cuzari on the Khozars, the tale was thought to be merely the poetical offspring of his imagination. But history has now accepted the account as undoubtedly true and attributes some of the characteristics of the Russian Jew as due to their descent from Tartars, converted to Judaism, rather than from Jews even of the lost Ten Tribes.”

    - Elkan Nathan Adler, in Jewish Travellers (London: George Routledge & Sons, 1930), page xiii.

    “The capital city and lands of the Chazars were finally captured about the middle of the tenth century by the Duke of Kiev; the survivors of this strange kingdom were then scattered through the Crimea, where they were soon lost to history. Yet even today throughout Southern Russia we find Jews whose tall figures, sandy hair and high cheek bones suggest that they may have descended from the almost forgotten Chazars.”

    - Elma Ehrlich Levinger and Rabbi Lee J. Levinger, in The Story of the Jew for Young People (New York, NY: Behrman’s Jewish Book House, 1940), page 107.

    “The Khazar nation was scattered. Some of the people fled to northern Russia. They may have become the ancestors of certain Jewish groups who are living at the present time.”

    - Dorothy F. Zeligs, in A History of Jewish Life in Modern Times for Young People (New York, NY: Bloch Publishing Company, 1950), page 203.

    “The circumstances surrounding the beginnings of Jewish settlement in Poland remain nebulous, though it is more than a surmise that the first Jews must have come from the Crimea. After the fall of the Jewish kingdom of Khazaria, they continued to arrive, fleeing from the Russian boyars of Kiev who after several centuries of vassalage to the Jewish kings had finally risen in revolt and conquered them. In time, these Khazar Jews blended with the other Jewish elements in Poland and ultimately lost their ethnic group identity.”

    - Nathan Ausubel, in Pictorial History of the Jewish People (New York, NY: Crown, 1953), page 133.

    “In 1016 the descendants of the Jewish royal family fled to their coreligionists in Spain. Many of the Jewish Khazars, however, continued to live in the Crimea…. But the majority of the early Khazar proselytes were scattered over the neighboring countries, introducing Jewish ideals among their Christian neighbors. Some estimate that from sixty to seventy per cent of the Jews of Southern Russia are not of Semitic descent.”

    - Jacob S. Raisin, in Gentile Reactions to Jewish Ideals (New York, NY: Philosophical Library, 1953), page 691.

    “The first Jews to settle in Lithuania in the 11th century came from the land of the Khazars, on the lower Volga River, from Crimea on the Black Sea and from Bohemia. Originally, the Jews came to the land of the Khazars from the Byzantine kingdom, where they had been oppressed. The Khazars had welcomed the Jews and later had been converted to Judaism. When the Khazars were overrun by the Mongols and Russians, the Jews settled in Lithuania, whose rulers, at that time, were extremely tolerant.”

    - Sidney L. Markowitz, in What You Should Know About Jewish Religion, History, Ethics and Culture (New York, NY: Citadel Press, 1955).

    “But before and after the Mongol upheaval, the Khazars sent many offshoots into the unsubdued Slavonic lands, helping ultimately to build up the great Jewish centers of eastern Europe.”

    - Salo Wittmayer Baron, in A Social and Religious History of the Jews (New York, NY: Columbia University Press, 1957), volume 3, page 206.

    “Descendants of the Khazars, men noteworthy for their learning and piety, were known long after in Toledo…. And, to the present day, the Mongoloid features common amongst the Jews of eastern Europe are, in all probability, a heritage from these ‘proselytes of righteousness’ of ten centuries ago.”

    - Cecil Roth, in A Short History of the Jewish People (London: Horovitz [East and West Library], 1959), page 288.

    “Poland received many Jews seeking to escape from the oppressions of the Crusades and the Black Death, as well as survivors of the Jewish kingdom of Khazaria.”

    - Meyer Levin and Toby K. Kurzband, in The Story of the Jewish Way of Life (New York, NY: Behrman House, 1959), page 48.

    “The Khazars were a warlike people, and succeeded in extending their rule and influence. They were subjected to occasional attacks by the Byzantines and later by the Russians. By the end of the 10th century they succumbed to the Russians, and after maintaining themselves for a short period in the Crimea, some gradually embraced the Christian or Moslem faith, ceasing to exist as a separate people, though many joined with their Jewish brethren.”

    - David Bridger and Samuel Wolk (editors), in article “Khazars” (pp. 265-266) in The New Jewish Encyclopedia (New York, NY: Behrman House, 1962), page 266.
    “Far away, on the steppes of Southern Russia, a whole nation had been converted to Judaism several hundred years ago. Could it be true? Hasdai sends a letter to the king of this foreign people, the Chazars, and receives an answer: the story is true… They were to exist to the thirteenth century, when they were defeated, their remnants joining the Jewish or Christian communities.”

    - Leo Trepp, in Eternal Faith, Eternal People: A Journey into Judaism (Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice Hall, 1962), page 143.

    “The Khazar Jewish kingdom was a fascinating episode in Russian Jewish History…. The Jews dispersed into Russia, Armenia, Byzantium, and the Mediterranean coast. It is likely that many of the Jews of these regions are descended from Khazar refugees.”

    - Richard Haase, in Jewish Regional Cooking (Secaucus, NJ: Chartwell Books, 1985), page 56.

    “East European Jews, especially the Ukrainian, Moldovian (Bessarabian), Azerbaijanian, Georgian, and Armenian Jews are actually a fusion of Byzantine-Greek Jews, Babylonian Jews from the Abbasid Caliphate, Yiddish-speaking German-Polish Jews, sixteenth Century Sephardic Jews fleeing the Spanish Inquisition and Khazars. This is the bloodline of these Russian Jews… However, the most strongly Khazar of the Jews are undoubtedly the Hungarian Jews, descendants of the last Khazars who fled into Hungary about 1200-1300, where they were received by their former vassals, the Magyar kings. The Hungarian Jews are definitely a fusion of Semitic German Jews and the Turkic Khazars with some Sephardic immigrants who came to Hungary by way of Italy in the 1500′s escaping the Spanish Inquisition.”

    - Monroe Rosenthal and Isaac Mozeson, in Wars of the Jews: A Military History from Biblical to Modern Times (New York, NY: Hippocrene Books, 1990), page 224.

    “…one should remember that the Khazars were described by several contemporary authors as having a pale complexion, blue eyes, and reddish hair. Red, as distinguished from blond, hair is found in a certain percentage of East European Jews, and this, as well as the more generalized light coloring, could be a heritage of the medieval Khazar infusion.”

    - Raphael Patai and Jennifer Patai, in The Myth of the Jewish Race (Detroit, MI: Wayne State University Press, 1989), page 72.

    …AND I’LL LEAVE YOU WITH THE HOOK:

    “Thus, the Ashkenazic ethnogenesis, having been formed by migrations from the East (Khazaria), West (e.g., Germany, Austria, Bohemia), and South (e.g., Greece, Mesopotamia, Khorasan), is more complex than previously envisioned.”

    - Kevin Alan Brook, in The Jews of Khazaria (Northvale, NJ: Jason Aronson, 1999), page xv.

    …Does this sound like “pure drivel,” Hanok?…and notice, not once did I quote Koestler.
14. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:28

    Disclaimer about “The Hook” quote: Kevin Alan Brook holds to the view that that Eastern European Jews descend both from Khazarian Jews AND from Israelite Jews. I dismiss this, however, based on the other quotes. Clearly, he does this for political and strategic reasons…he knows the literary world in which he writes.
15. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:29

    …Nevertheless, his reference to the “Ashkenazic ethnogenesis” is rather intriguing.
16. 

    Hanok
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:38

    Neyo,
    I’m not debating with you about whether or not the Ashkenazi Jews descend at least in part from the Khazars. My contention is with the ancestors of the Khazars themselves. I realize many Jewish historians have made the Askhenazi/Khazar connection. In other words, the question is more about the ancestors of the Khazars, not so much who their descendants are.

    Their ancestors were very probable to have been a mixture of Israelite and non-Israelite peoples!

    Look at the first quote you added. The author claims the Khazars were most likely Tatars who converted to Judaism, not Jews from the Lost Ten Tribes. First of all, the ignorance of the author is illustrated simply by referring to the lost ten tribes as “Jews”. They were never called Jews. JEW-dah is where the word Jew comes from. Furthermore, the Tatars and Turkic people in general have very contentious origins. Personally, I believe the Tatars and many so-called Turkic peoples were themselves Israelite. 10-Israel was deported by Assyria long before there was any notion of the names Tatar or Turk or even Khazar.

    And guess what Neyo, Assyria did not deport 10-Israel into Africa! Is there any notion in your mind that at least some lost tribes are Caucasian in appearance? Or are they only dark skinned Africans?
17. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:46

    Many quote Jewish sources to deflect the ideological charge of “antisemitism.” And I’m not about color…in fact white supremacy has its roots in the Talmud. My views are reactionist to a racist society. You’re a Karaite and that’s…but at the same token you are no different from the Rabbins in that you reject Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel. I am a Hebrew Israelite who believes in Christ as all the Israelite prophets before me.
18. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:50

    I know about the distinction between Israel and Judah. Israel became known as “Jews” collectively after the Babylonian captivity of 586, before that the people of the kingdom of Judah were known as “Judahites” and Israel as “Israelites.”
19. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:54

    The Jews fled into Africa after the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Do your research, Hanok. Your statement, “And guess what Neyo, Assyria did not deport 10-Israel into Africa!” is a demonstration of ignorance of the facts! I know that the original Jews were in fact BLACK, based on the research.
20. 

    Hanok
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:55

    No, actually I only have ‘Karaite-leanings’. I’m not a Karaite officially… and I actually do trust in Yeshua as Messiah. =)

    The Talmud has alot of good insights, but it is also the source of much evil. I wouldn’t be surprised to see racial undertones in the Talmud, but am curious what the references are.
21. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:56

    …it’s all about the research, not our emotional tirades.
22. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:57

    Well if you accept Jesus as the Messiah, you are my brother and are part of the commonwealth of Israel.
23. 

    Hanok
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:58

    The Romans were not Assyrian, correct?

    The Assyrians deported 10-Israel more than 700 years before the Romans destroyed the Temple.
24. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 14:59

    “No, actually I only have ‘Karaite-leanings’. I’m not a Karaite officially…” I’m puzzled here because the Karaites REJECT Christ. How could you lean towards a group that rejects the Messiah?
25. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 15:01

    “The Romans were not Assyrian, correct?” YOU ARE HUMORING ME NOW…GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION. I will not validate that question with a response. Shame on you, dude!
26. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 15:05

    The “Jews” (remnants of Israel and Judah) returned to Palestine after the 70- year Babylonian captivity to rebuild the Second Temple that the Romans sacked on 70 AD. It was Herod who improved upon it under the Hasmonean occuption of Palestine 130 years before Christ.
27. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 15:06

    Shalom.
28. 

    Neyo Webster
    August 29th, 2010 - 15:10

    Oh yeah, it just wasn’t the 10 tribes that were deported. Sennacherib’s Assyrian forces also carried captives from the Judean (Judah) cities of Lachish and Azekah. Do some research on the palace reliefs of the Assyrian king Sennacherib showing the capture of the Judean city of Lachish in 701 BC.
29. 

    Hanok
    August 29th, 2010 - 15:10

    I lean toward the Karaite approach to the Tanakh, in their rejection of the so-called ‘Oral Torah’ of the rabbinic system.
30. 

    Hanok
    August 29th, 2010 - 15:14

    A remnant of 10-Israel returned to the Land after the Babylonian captivity? Do you have any historical proof of this? And please, don’t give me the Asherite prophetess reference from Luke. She could have been from the remnant which was not ever deported or her family could have survived within the borders of Judah.

    The reality is the bulk of 10-Israel never returned from their Assyrian deportations (much historical proof of this) and the bulk of Jew-dah never returned from their Babylonian Captivity (scriptural proof for this).

    Is there any notion in your mind that at least some lost tribes are Caucasian in appearance? Or are they only dark skinned Africans?
31. 

    Hanok
    August 29th, 2010 - 15:25

    The history of Jew-dah and 10-Israel is a very complex subject because of the two major captivities, not including the Roman diaspora that happened hundreds of years later.

    I was not trying to confuse you with the Roman/Assyrian question. You made a reference to me getting my facts straight… and I wanted to be sure you knew the Romans were not Assyrian… since you seemed to be talking about a diaspora nearly 800 years after the first major captivity into Central Asia… a captivity the “Black Hebrew” movement seems unwilling to speak about… especially since there are very very few Black-skinned people living in central Asia or along any of the major migratory routes going back to the great migration period which post-dated the 10-Israel deportation there. This always intrigues me. If Israel was all “BLACK” before the first deportation, why are there none Black in Central Asia now?

    Personally, I think Israel and Jew-dah had many different shades of color going all the way back to the Egyptian exodus… partially because of the mixture of peoples who left with them. Because of epigenetic effects, Israelites who migrated into Central Asia and Northern Europe became lighter skinned because of their environment and mixing with Japheth. Those Israelites, such as the Lemba, became darker skinned also because of their climate and mixing with those groups already indigenous to Africa.
32. 

    Hanok
    August 30th, 2010 - 09:48

    Neyo,
    I’ve grown weary of speaking to “white” people and “black” people who are too racist to realize that Ephraim (in particular) will be represented by many different colors. However, Jew-dah is also represented by different colors. The Lemba and Ashenazim are perfect examples of Jew-dah’s colors. Both groups have a percentage of the same Cohen Modal Haplotype and yet appear strikingly different on the outside. In other words, they have almost identical y-Chromosomal DNA in a subset of their populations, which basically means they have a very closely related history and ancestry. One is much lighter than the other, but you refuse to accept that the Ashenazi may have valid claims as Israelite because you sir are a RACIST!

    Here is where we are different… I can accept your Israelite claims even though you are darker skinned than I am, but you refuse to accept my claims… which illustrates how this is little more than a bitter race-inspired race-driven ideal coming from you.

    Personally, I’m convinced there is ONE HUMAN RACE. There is NO such thing as a black race and a white race and a yellow race and red race. They all came from one man: NOAH! There is one RACE… but the Adversary despises the race of mankind… and has done a profoundly good job of keeping us divided and inflamed against each other.

    I hate even thinking in terms of white and black and I’ve spent much energy removing that paradigm from my head…. and once you also illustrate that you are capable of such, I’ll approve more of your comments on this website. Until then, I’m done.

    Here is a good website for you to visit in the mean time: http://www.onehumanrace.com/

    Hanok
33. 

    Brad Scott
    January 8th, 2011 - 22:46

    Hanok,
    After doing another interview with Jono today I mentioned to him the latest book I am working on with Ed Harris, a gifted man in the arena of family relations, who is Black. The book will cover a number of areas with respect to the issue of ‘race’, including why the ‘roots’ movement umbrella does not particularly attract Blacks. In that interview Jono mentioned the web site you are commenting on in this blog. Just wanted to thank you for a well written short treatise of this subject that was severely lacking any pinheaded theology, or pointy headed scholarship. Instead you remained steadfast to the old fashioned idea of common sense.
34. 

    Cdcdgfg
    February 24th, 2011 - 22:23

    Good pointing concerning the chl genetic code of which I don’t know nothing about… But this explains the confusion and nor does it disproved our heritage. Esau is Jacob. Twine brother. Esau is also Jacobs big brother bcuz he came out first. Now, all white ppl came from black ppl. The Most High told Isaac that his sons would b of two nations… Apparently so, now the seed of Esau rules the world whereas Jacob seed is in trouble for not keeping the commandments. So if Esau & jocab came from the same father, this would explain the genetic similarity. But this however does Not mean that esau’s seed has a right to our lands as they have to day bcuz that land was given to us by God and by us it was established by our following Yah! Now we are all family, but racism does play huge part and I won’t expect any if u to understand bcuz in order b racist, one must have power+ prejudice! And who has power in this world and who is predominantly prejudice in the world today?

    And if they were the real Jews it would b peace in the earth but since their not, we have wars and rummers of wars
35. 

    Imhotep397
    April 13th, 2011 - 14:18

    Here’s the only thing…the Lembe are not Jewish people with “Black Skin” as so many non-dark skinned Jews keep trying to label them. The Lembe are Hebrew African people with African features that obviously also happen to have black skin…and that HUGE. Since it’s been found that the Lembe are not only Hebrew, but genetically more Hebrew than most European/American Jews the obvious and most logical conclusion is that Hebrews were originally Black and in the process of intermarrying with Caucasian people over several generations arrived at the look that they are today, you can look at people that are mixed Black and White like Bliss Broyard and see a very similar mixed race “Look” outside of the Jewish community to use as a control. It’s proven that 50% of the people (European/American Jews) that claim Ashkanazi heritage have no genetic markers to support that claim and then the other 50% when compared to the Lembe have a lower quantity of Hebrew genetic markers it supports the idea of the original Hebrews being Black.
36. 

    Imhotep397
    April 13th, 2011 - 17:37

    Wish I could edit posts fro grammatical correctness here. I hit the “Submit” button a little to quickly.
37. 

    Hanok
    April 13th, 2011 - 17:51

    I don’t think we necessarily know with certainty what skin-tone ancient Israel predominantly had. Personally, I believe they likely had different shades of color… but I suspect they more closely resembled the shade most commonly seen in that region right now, such as in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, etc.

    Intermarrying with Caucasians? The Caucasus mountain region is the region 10-Israel was deported to by Assyria (the Taylor Prism even confirms Assyria took about 200,000 souls from Jew-dah). What happened to all the “Black” Israelites who were deported to that region? Where are they now, if they were indeed “black” as the Lemba? The CMH appears in one clan of the Lemba at a much lower rate than it appears in the Sephardic and Ashkenazi populations. If it was the other way around, your claim would be more valid and believable.

    The 50% that you mention… who have no support for their Ashkenazi Jewishness… are actually found within haplogroups which are more closely connected to Ephraim, not Jew-dah. On the mainsite under DNA, I’ve written on that particular topic in more than one area.
38. 

    Imhotep397
    April 14th, 2011 - 06:02

    There are several issues that really leave this case far more open than what you want to describe. One thing to consider when looking at the Lembe tribe history is that they, themselves, described the original Hebrews through their oral tradition as being ethnically Black. Where I start having problems is that this “research” takes some things from the Lembe oral tradition, passes it through the filter of genetic inspection and verifies it as truth while it also attempting to toss the other parts out that don’t fit a particular agenda.

    Something else to consider is that even labeling the haplotype the “Kohanim Haplotype” could be rather presumptive based on the fact that there aren’t any original Kohanim to test that theory against and there certainly is no living Aaron DNA to verify the theory either. The only thing the haplotype establishes, scientifically, is that it’s A very small and common gene group among varying ethnic types of people coming from the same or a similar region. Digging a little deeper it can determine smaller groups within those groups can be connected but the origin of those markers, in the form of a person, is far from definitive.

    Another practical matter to consider is if the Jews were essentially very similar looking to the lighter Arabs (there are quite a lot of darker African looking Arabs) in the Middle East couldn’t they have effectively “Blended In” leaving probably between 70%-90% of the original tribes’ DNA in the Middle East to begin with? Historically, various populations ethnically blending in to other groups is very common as a human phenomenon. As to your question on Assyria specifically I briefly mentioned above that there are in fact quite a lot of very Dark peoples living in former Assyrian territories maybe as more DNA testing of people in these regions in the years to come a different picture will emerge. Alternatively this current crop of “researchers” may elect to stop the testing now as they’ve found enough of what they wanted to attempt to sufficiently corroborate an agenda and convince quite a few people.

    The other very major problem with all of this is that the writings on this subject treat DNA like information that’s etched in stone. “DNA as etched in stone evidence” is an outmoded way of viewing DNA as it relates multi-generational genetic linking through centuries, millennia or even longer periods of time. In all of these published hypotheses, as far as I know, epigenetic mutation of DNA has been skirted around like it’s a plague and epigenetic mutation of DNA makes DNA a moving target particularly over long periods of time. Our lack of understanding of that process inherently makes presumed postulations like the ones presented here suspect right from the outset.
39. 

    Hanok
    April 20th, 2011 - 08:52

    No, actually… I do agree… that there are “several issues” that leave this case more of an open question or open problem to investigate. There are certainly many things that even the population geneticists don’t yet understand. However, I will say that they don’t all agree on the subject of the CMH… actually… many prominent persons are in disagreement, but I think alot of their own agenda is Darwinian-filter based.

    Wouldn’t we feel silly if one day we find out that the very sons of Jacob actually had a wide-range of different skin tones? We don’t really know what skin-tone his two wives and their concubines had. Skin diversity could have been very common and not worth mentioning… which may be the reason it isn’t mentioned often in Scripture. I really don’t know… and don’t think it should be the primary litmus test for identifying Jew-dah or 10-Israelites.
40. 

    Shlomo
    July 11th, 2011 - 22:15

    Man, Neyo, you knocked this one out of the box!!! It’s amusing how you came with actual evidence out the yin yang, while all I see from Hanok is “I think,” “I believe.” LOL!!!

    I won’t add much, since Neyo put it down, but I just have to correct Hanok’s notion that the word Jew comes from Judah. “Jew” is actually only a few hundred years old. How do I know this?

    BECAUSE THE LETTER “J” IS ONLY A FEW HUNDRED YEARS OLD! Get a 1611 KJV Bible if you don’t believe me. The Ibrim (you know them as Hebrews Hanok) had no J in their language. The people you call “Jews” called themselves Yahudim, from their land, Yahudah (you know this as Judah).

    Bottom line is, if the Ashkenazim imposters actually DO have any Ibrim ancestry, this is through mingling with the original black Ibrim.
41. 

    Hanok
    July 11th, 2011 - 23:59

    I’m sorry, Shlomo. Did my statement that “I BELIEVE there is one race, the human race” offend your Darwinian worldview? Or was it just funny in light of your racism? My belief in that area, by the way, is supported by an enormous amount of genetic evidence… which unfortunately is easily swept aside with Neyo’s conspiracy theory that the entire global field of Population Genetics is funded by white caucasians like the Rockefellers and thus manipulated to mean whatever rich white caucasians want it to mean.

    I’ve written in detail about the Jews, Yehudah, and their identity in many other articles on this website. I’m quite familiar with the origins of the word “Jew’. It is the Middle English word derived from Old English where the word is attested as early as 1000 in various forms, such as Iudeas, Gyu, Giu, Iuu, Iuw, Iew. Some believe those terms derive from Old French giu, earlier juieu, which had dropped the letter “d” from the Middle Latin Iudaeus, which, like the Greek Ioudaioi.

    What proof do you have that the original Hebrews were solely “black”, as you say? Lets assume you’re right, were there any “black-skinned” people who were not Hebrew, in your estimation? Was all of humanity originally ‘black’? Is there any proof one way or another for this? Were the originals all Hutu-like or Tutsi-like or some other shape and tone? Which one wielded the machete better, in your estimation?

    Seems like everywhere I look on this planet, there are peoples of different shapes and skin-tones who are slaughtering each other largely because of racial insanity. If we only knew how related and interconnected we are, things would be very different. However, sadly, it seems ALL the sons of Noah prefer to be arrogant, ignorant closed-minded bigots. We should be proud.

    Hanok
42. 

    Dmitriy
    August 1st, 2011 - 09:43

    Some things to consider:
    DNA evidence that observed Y chromosomes in Ashkenazi Sephardic and Mizrachi Jews are closer to each other than European populations as well as to other semetic peoples:
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/06/03/the-dna-of-abraham-s-children.html

    Ashkenazi Jews haven’t prostelytized since the early roman empire and discourage conversion, not to mention the fact that Europeans despised them and put them in ghettos(so you can see how intermarriage would be rare).
    Furthermore Ashkenazi Jews only began moving to eastern europe in the late middle ages, after the crusades and expulsion from Germany in the 14th century, after the Khazar empire disappeared.
    Other things that cannot be explained is how this Khazar culture/language etc would have disappeared without a trace by mere contact with Judeo-German culture and language. If you observe the language of Ashkenazi Jews, as well as the names you will notice that it’s a language with a German base along with many Hebrew, Aramaic, and even Romance language loans. That’s why in our language we have names like Bella,. Stella, Bunim, Sprintseh since we did in fact live in Italy/France after being taken from Eretz Israel. Not to mention words like bentshn derived from bendicere(an italian word meaning: to bless).
    Idk maybe you can explain to me how slavic people would have taught these turkic khazars a german language with italian words and how there’s no evidence of ever having come into contact with them?
43. 

    Dmitriy
    August 1st, 2011 - 09:50

    Furthermore this constant attack on Ashkenazi Jews is an attack on Zionism. As though all people must be “pure” in order to have a country, as though 850,000 JEws weren’t expelled from the arab world and 600,000 of them came to eretz israel. Non-European Jews form some 50% of the israeli Jews population today.
    I guess all zionists aren’t “european” afterall. Not that Jews were ever considered Europeans(that is of course until after 1948, where anti-semites now claim jews as their own people).
44. 

    Ashley
    August 22nd, 2011 - 13:59

    I’m black and I agree with you Hanok I believe lots of blacks in America are lost isrealites through diaspora with Jews but the Israelites spread over the world and mixed with the people groups over the world but I believe the first jews were yellow to brown skin.
45. 

    NYC Calling
    August 27th, 2011 - 03:02

    I’m a follower of Yeshua the Messiah and I’ve always prayed for the “jews” as the bible taught me but recently the Ruach Hakodesh prompted me to begin research who are the real jews. I started to learn about the Khazars who converted to judiasm and how many of the jews today are their descendants.

    Based on SCRIPTURES (From the New and Old Covenant), research and archaeology. It’s evident that the original Israelite were black NEGROES just like we see to today. However I do not support the extreme movement that all black people are Israelite. Let’s not forget that again scripture, archaeology and research proves that the original Egyptians were also black, even the Persian were originally blacks.

    The different shades of skin tones that wee see today in Jews is quite simple. It is a result of Israel scattering, and mingling with other nations. There is a possibility that “some” of the Ashkenazi Jews may have bloodline lineage to Israel but the only reason for this is because of scattered jews who were looking for safe haven. I firmly believe that these scattered jews were of mix heritage and not “pure blood” Hebrews.

    You can pull out all the literary comments by this scholar and that scholar but the HOLY SACRED Scriptures backs up what researchers and archaeologist has proven. The Original Hebrews were blacks they were not mixed or light skin they were blacks including YESHUA THE MESSIAH.

    Let’s not forget the Justinian Coin which portrays Justianian as a white man with straight hair and Yeshua The Messiah as a black man with black features and obviously rocking an afro

    http://www.religionfacts.com/jesus/images/christ-justinian-ii-coin-705Ad-Constantinople-wp-CNGcoins.jpg

    I did not find this in the research. I discovered this on my own through scriptures. It’s about the story of Hadassah (Esther). I always wondered what Mordecai meant when he told her in Esther 2:10 not to show her kindred or her people. It made no sense to me. Now I realize that Mordecai was charging her not to reveal her customs because she would be identified as a Hebrew woman. It had nothing to do with skin color. You see the King Ahasuerus of Persians of that time who ruled in the Kingdom that Esther and Mordecai were in were also Dark skin black people. This is why Esther was able to blend in so well. It’s no different than a Black Caribbean woman blended into American society and being mistaken for a Black American.

    Now in regards to the Talmud. This is what Yeshua warned about the “issue” of a little leaven in 1 Corinthians 5:2, The Talmud is no different than the Catholics who corrupted Christianity with their false doctrines. It’s a major issue with Elohim when you add and corrupt the covenant as you please same with the Talmud. No where in the covenant that I read that the talmud was given to any of the so call “minor’ or “major” prophets. If I can’t find scripture to back it up then I dismiss it. It’s irrelevant and pointless.

    The Talmud is corruption of the “Old” Covenant just like the Catholicism is corruption of the the “New Covenant” which is the pure gospel of Yeshua the Messiah!!!

    The “talmud” and “catholicism” have one thing in common it is glorified and idolized more than the original covenants themselves and there is no scripture to back up the majority of the false doctrines and blasphemy that is written in them.

    Yeshua was right in Revelations 2:9.
46. 

    Hanok
    August 28th, 2011 - 15:08

    Many of the ancient coins and artifacts that I’ve seen of the Medes and Persians are most definitely not what most Darwinist would call “Negroid” in appearance. They would generally refer to them as Caucasoid, largely because of their physical features and location in or around the Caucasus Mountains and/or their generally accepted migration from or through that region… which just happens to be the place 10-Israel was deported to by Assyria. People who are more Caucasian looking can actually have skin colors that are darker than some modern day Africans. This is especially noticeable in modern day Pakistan and India.

    I should probably reiterate here once more that I don’t think all of Israel and Jew-dah are “white” or “Caucasoid”. The yChromosome of Jacob is found within many colorful people groups today. In fact, the Y-Chromosome of men doesn’t determine any physical appearance. It is our Autosomal DNA taken from all of our ancestors, mostly those within the last 5 to 7 generations, which determine our more prominent physical features. That is an extremely important thing to remember.

    There is one race, the Human race! There are many flavors, cultures and heritages, undoubtedly, but they’re all descended from Noah. I find myself wondering what Noah and his sons would tell us if they saw all our bloody skin-based disputes over the last 500 years?
    Hanok
47. 

    Chuckie
    September 1st, 2011 - 00:36

    My comment is a simple one, if we know from the bible that askenazi is a descendant of gomar who is descendant from japeth and japeth in genesis 10 is said to live in the land of the Gentiles which is Europe, which is consistent with Jews being white why does no one question why in the bible it says that the Hebrews looked like the Egyptians who descend from ham who is the progenitor of the dark races not negroes, but Egyptians,Ethiopians,libyans,phut (zondervan’s compact bible dictionary)and the father of history Herodotus book 2 ref 104 490-420bc, strabo 64bc-24ad & diodorus sisulus in 60 bc all say that the Egyptians & Jews are black! Even the term Jewish is telling you the truth a Jew is a person living in judea or a descendant of Judah and ish means kind of but not really like something maybe I’m the only person on earth who can read. Just my thoughts
48. 

    Hanok
    September 1st, 2011 - 12:21

    I’m sorry, Chuckie. You’re comment in fact isn’t all that simple. There are alot of assumptions you’re making in the various dots that paint a picture that you perceive as simple, which really isn’t that simple. For example, there are very dark-skinned Indians, Afghanis and Pakistanis who actually look very “Caucasian” minus their skin-tone. Herodotus might have called them “black” as well, in comparison to the lighter skinned Europeans of his day. So the “Black” skinned people Herodotus wrote about… did they look like an Indian from India or did they look like a Bushmen/San or a Lemba from sourthern Africa? From what I can tell, it seems like we are left with alot of interpretation and we all tend to lean towards our own embedded bias.

    Reading English translations of Greek texts and reading them out of context can also prove problematic. On top of that, all ancient historians had their detractors and critics. For example, there are those who called Herodotus the “father of lies”. I’m not sure I’d go that far, but that is an example.

    Here is a real simple reality to consider: There are some male black Lemba Jews, some blue-eyed/red-headed Ashkenazi Jews, and some dark-eyed/dark-haired Sephardic Jews who all have the same y-Chromosomal (Hg.J/CMH) ancestor. Some of them all have a common ancestor and most likely NONE of those look precisely like that specific original ancestor. Any one of those three groups would be remiss to claim they are a carbon copy, don’t you think? But what you’re essentially claiming is that the original looked like the Lemba, yes?
49. 

    LochemYah
    October 10th, 2011 - 10:05

    I had typed a whole lot of scriptures proving that the Israelites were a black skinned people, but unfortunately I accidentally clicked on the link at the bottom of the page and lost everything I had typed in. (Satan didn’t trying to stop me) So instead of re-typing it…I’ll just send you to a website that has all of the scriptures and more. http://www.hebrewisraelites.org

    Once again, sorry for not posting all the scriptures myself, but there’s a ton of information on that website.

    Shalom
50. 

    pappybill
    October 25th, 2011 - 14:17

    Loc Hem Yah:
    Check out my blog at http://windstream.me. I selected http://hebrewisraelites, because they seem to be more rational and levelheaded than most BHI groups. When you take their “proof” and shine some logical reasoning and a little Bible knowledge on it item by item, you soon have nothing left that proves the Blacks of the Americas are the descendants of Abraham. I don’t think it even matters what color the ancient Israelites yoost to be. If the Ashkenazim of Europe aren’t the real thing, then we need real proof of who is. There are several ways to get to Europe from Israel other than over the Caucasus and through the Khazars.
    Take a look Loc Ham YAH and tell me what you think.

    Pappybill
51. 

    Hiram Ben Yisrael
    October 26th, 2011 - 21:55

    Shalom to all,

    I believe that much of the confusion of “Israelite identity” could be eliminated if we would just take heed to the “sign” ( Deut. 28:45, 46 ). The Most High knew that, in these modern times, we would be in a world of confusion. Who or what do we trust? Genetic testing? The media? Public opinion? This is why the Most High gave us a “sign”. This is not about skin color, but rather it is about who bears the “sign”.

    For those who doubt the veracity of the curses of Deuteronomy 28 as a legitimate sign, please note that the calling to mind of the blessings and curses will be what will trigger the awakening of the children of Yisrael, and the turning of their captivity in the last days ( Deut. 30:1-3 ). Also, the multiple witnesses from the writings of the prophets bear witness to the sign of the curses.

    What many do not realize is that everything we need to determine who are the true children of Yisrael is in the scriptures, from Genesis to Revelation. Anything else
    ( archaeology, genetics, history, etc. ) is secondary, supplimentary, and should not be put on the same level as the scriptures.

    If someone can show me that the Ashkenazi Jews match all of the post-exile prophecies concerning the children of Yisrael, then I would most certainly accept their claim to Yisraelite heritage. I say the same for any other group that lays claim to Yisraelite heritage. Let’s get back to the book. Yahuah bless you all.
52. 

    pappybill
    November 4th, 2011 - 14:29

    I don’t know anything about DNA, and I don’t think I have to know anything about it, to be able to identify the real descendants of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
    Prior to 1900 life in America was great if you were rich, but for the lower 95+% of Americans, work was long hours at very low pay. But after 1900 the living standard, therefore quality of life got progressively better and better and very good after WW2.
    It was around 1900 that European Jews began to arrive in America in large numbers. I make a direct link between American prosperity, and making a safe haven for the persecuted Jews. The Creator will bless or curse anyone of whom the Creator chooses.
    I’ve also wondered about Germany’s miraculous recovery after WW1, they went from economic devastation in 1918 to an up and rollin’ advanced and highly motivated army navy air force, in 1938. Isn’t that just two decades or 20 yrs? And what happened during that time was a lot, we also found out who the Jews are. Where are the miracles that surround Black Hebrew Israelites?

    I would like to offer a comment to Chuckie 9-1-11
    Chuckie sez:
    “the bible says the Hebrews looked like the Egyptians”

    I know the passage you are referring to (Gen 50:11), the scripture isn’t declaring the ancient Egyptians any color, the scripture is saying that the Canaanites are referring to Joseph and his large contingent to be Egyptian. There are other reasons the Canaanites may have confused Hebrews with Egyptians:
    They could have been similar in color is one reason of course, and dressed in similar fashion would be another. I think each of the ethnics had their own color codes and cuts of material and hairdos. Don’t forget the Hebrews at that time were Egyptian citizens, and would look like any other Egyptian citizen. A good comparison would be a platoon of American soldiers in Iraq, they would be called Americans even though they may have several different colors of soldiers and maybe advisors from other countries making up the platoon. In some Middle Eastern places young boys are taught the correct way of spitting on the ground, as it represents their tribe. Also the Israelites could have been strung out across the caravan, there was a large number of Egyptians accompanying Joseph, and the Canaanites may have simply ignored them, and called the whole bunch Egyptians.
    So, what color were the ancient Egyptians?
    Take what some butthead archeologist says with a grain of salt, Chuckie. About every 50 to 100 years archeologists look back at what there predecessors believed and did, and shake their heads. There are opinions of what color the ancient Egyptians were, which range from white to black.
    Here’s another opinion:
    The evidence of what color the ancient Egyptians were. is found in Central and South America.
    When the Spanish began to arrive in the 1600’s they did report running across villages of Stone Age black people, segregated away from the other main civilizations. They also reported three; Egyptian type, advanced civilizations, and those “Indians” were not black people. They built pyramids, wrote hieroglyphics, mummified corpses, worshiped the Sun god, studied the stars, made calendars, mined gold and made gold items and utensils, etc. The native Central and South Americans, have a look about them that is different than the native North American. The Incas, Mayan, and Aztecs, were an obvious mix of Egyptian and Asian, the probable mix of the North American Indian, is Asian and Stone Age European. If the ancient Egyptians were black, the dominant gene would of taken over and the native South and Central Americans would be black. These civilizations according to archeologists (I hate archeologists) go back at 2,300 years or more.
    If you will notice in Gen 9, Noah blessed Shem and Japheth, cursed Canaan and gave no blessing to the other sons of Ham. If you will also notice the U.S. and European economies are failing at the rate that they being filled up with the non-blessed Hamitic
    peoples. This is exciting, we are seeing yet another move of the Creator and the Bible being proven to be the living and true word, of the living and true God.
    So, Chuckie I advise you to find the living and true God, and not search for the correct color of ancient men who probably wiped their feet on your ancestors and mine too.
53. 

    pappybill
    November 9th, 2011 - 14:23

    Hiram Ben Yisrael

    I agree, the accurate interpretation of Scripture supersedes anything and everything. Of course, accurate knowledge of history is necessary too.
    If you are convinced Lev 26 and De 28 are referring to the blacks of the Americas, you should read my blog at http://blackhebrew-israelites-or-canaanites.info, or
    http://windstream.me, same thing.
    You will find that Black Hebrew Israelite’s of America. do not “prove” they are Hebrew Israelites just because of slavery, and the butchery of De 28:68.
54. 

    Hiram Ben Yisrael
    November 11th, 2011 - 22:17

    Pappybill,

    Shalom. I see that your obsession seems to be to “debunk” the “Black Hebrew Israelites”, yet you fall into the same trap as the rest of the “debunkers” by not providing positive scriptural proof of who you believe the true children of Israel are.

    My challenge to you or anyone else is very simple: Take all of the prophetic scriptures regarding the post-biblical children of Israel and make a better case. In other words, give positive proof that these scriptures are talking about another specific group of people. This will speak louder to me than any “debunking”.

    Show me and those on this form first of all who else historically has been taken into a world-wide captivity ( Lk. 21:24 ) in a multi-national slave trade wherein they were sold for booze and whores ( Joel 3:1 – 3 ).

    Show me and those on this forum secondly who else historically was oppressed and enslaved by the modern-day nation of “Babylon”, which is the United States of America ( Isa. 13:19 – 14:4; Jer. 50:33, 34; Rev. 18:13 )

    On top of that, show me and those on this forum thirdly who else historically has had their rememberance to “cease from among men” ( Deut. 32:26 ). In other words, the majority of the world today does not recognize them as the children of Israel, nor do the majority of them recognize themselves as such.

    Of course there is more to share, but please take these three characteristics and make a better case before me and those on this forum. Provide postive scriptural and historical proof that these and the many other such prophecies are referring to another nation of people besides the so-called “black” slave descendants, not just in the Americas, but also in Europe, Asia, Southeast Asia, the “Middle East”, Australia, etc.
55. 

    Hiram Ben Yisrael
    November 14th, 2011 - 06:22

    Shalom Hanok!

    I would like to address an issue that I frequently see popping up in Messianic/Hebrew Roots circles. I call it the “Messianic Matrix”, or the idea that the 12 tribes of Israel CANNOT be primarily one phenotypical stock of people, but rather they must be a melting pot of every national phenotype on the earth. It seems to me like anyone who thinks outside of this matrix is considered “racist”, and is not taken seriously.

    While this type of thinking may make everyone feel good and avoid controversy, it is scriptural? I will be the first to point out the mess that has been made of this issue by the “Black Hebrew Israelites” and the “British-Israelites”, but are suits wrong because the mafia wears them? Is any teaching that says that the 12 tribes of Israel are primarily one phenotypical stock of people wrong simply because of the mess that the two aforementioned groups have made of this issue?

    I bring this up because I have a sound, scriptural, and scientific reason to believe that the 12 tribes of Israel did not mix themselves out phenotypically, and are a recognizable nation of people today just like any other nation of people on the earth. I will share this sometime in the future.

    Looking forward to your response. Yahuah bless.
56. 

    Hanok
    November 14th, 2011 - 11:51

    The mafia suit point is a good one.

    Your thoughts on Ephraim and Menashe being half-breeds from the very beginning? And your thoughts on Jew-dah’s descendants being mixed, from the very beginning?

    Most African Americans learn they have some percentage of Caucasian in their ancestry when they are genetically tested. Many Caucasians also find they have some African American ancestry. It is the nature of our collective history, no matter how ugly or how pretty one sees it. Most of the human race is extremely mixed. Isolated groups have typically only stayed isolated for short periods, but there have been some exceptions.
57. 

    Hiram Ben Yisrael
    November 14th, 2011 - 16:59

    Shalom again Ahk Hanock,

    Concerning the “half-breed” Ephraimites/Mannasites and mixing of the Yahudim, this used to be more of an issue with me back when I believed that Moshe looked like Charleton Heston, Dawid like Richard Gere, and Yahushua like Mel Gibson. Now that I know how close they were in phenotype to the ancient Egyptians, I see things different.

    Consider this: Three-score and six (66) souls came into Egypt with Ya’acob besides his sons’ wives ( Gen. 46:26 ). In order for the children of Yisrael to grow to the point where “the land was filled with them” ( Ex. 1:7 ), the grandsons of Ya’acob had to get their wives from somewhere. And what would have hindered the future generations from mixing likewise? I believe that much of the mixt multitude came from such unions.

    I have heard it said before that if the children of Yisrael were not “black” going into Egypt, then they were by the time that they came out. Personally, I believe that there is enough scriptural and historical evidence to show that there was not a radical difference in the phenotypes of the ancient Hebrews and the ancient Egyptians ( Ex. 2:19; Acts 21:38 ).

    Consider this quote from Tacitus, the Roman historian:

    “Many, again, say that they were a race of Ethiopian origin, who in the time of king Cepheus were driven by fear and hatred of their neighbors to seek a new dwelling-place.”

    Now, I realize that this quote is not scripture, nonetheless we see that a notable historian took note of how the Romans likened the Yahudim of their day unto the sons of Cush, who, as you and I know, was the brother of Mizraim.

    In summary, the mixture of the Hebrews and the Egyptians was not a radical mixture like the “blacks” and “whites” of today, but rather was a mixture of two nations that were more similar in phenotype. Yahuah bless.
58. 

    Hanok
    November 14th, 2011 - 18:26

    Shalom Hiram,
    If the general ancient Egyptian population had the skin tone of a typical dark-skinned African from Sudan or a dark-skinned African American, why does the current population of Egypt not generally and dominantly reflect those features in the current Egyptian population? Who are the modern Egyptians descended from, in your view?

    From what I have discerned, the general appearance of modern Egyptians, Palestinians, Jordanians, and non-Askhenazi Jews are very similar. Much of the population share some similarity in their genetic makeup as well, which I guess would be expected. I have more to add, but I’m curious about your answers to those two questions above.
59. 

    Hiram Ben Yisrael
    November 14th, 2011 - 20:08

    Shalom Hanok,

    I would encourage you to study further into to the ancient cultures. What you will find is that not only were the ancient Egyptians a “black” people ( although not as “black” as the Ethiopians [Jer. 13:23] ), but also the Sumerians/Chaldeans ( ancient Iraqis ), and Elamites ( ancient Iranians ).

    Remember that most our images of the whitewashed arabs of the “Middle East” come from the establishment-controlled media. I have heard that in Egypt, whenever the media takes film or pictures, they put the dark-skinned Egyptians in the background so that they cannot be seen. Maybe that is true, maybe it isn’t. I do know, however, that there are researchers who have visited Egypt and confirmed that there are many dark-skinned natives there.

    Even in southern Iraq today, there are so-called “black” US soldiers that have reported that there are Iraqis who look just like the so-called “blacks” in America. While some of them were migrants from Africa, and others were descendants of slaves ( Hmmm……. ) brought to that region via the Islamic slave trade of the 7th century CE, there is a remnant of “black” natives in southern Iraq. I have never seen them via the establishment-controlled media, and I probably never will.

    So, your question is essentially, “What happened?”. Remember that the so-called “Middle East” ( which was really considered Northeast Africa before the Suez Canal was dug ) and North Africa were dominated by the Greeks and Romans for many centuries. Remember also that our father Noah said that Yapheth would dwell in the tents of Shem. I believe that there is much Yaphethite blood running through the veins of the modern-day arabs and North Africans, which accounts for the whitewashing of which I spoke earlier in this post.

    P.S.: Check out my site if you haven’t already, and give me some comments. Shalom.
60. 

    pappybill
    November 16th, 2011 - 13:52

    Hiram Ben Yisrael: Nov 11, 2011

    You are absolutely correct; I am obsessed with this Black Hebrew Israelite thing. Thank you for seeing that, and pointing it out to me. I’ve given it a lot of thought, and have decided that since the stakes are so high, I will remain “obsessed”.
    That was very clever of you to assign the responsibility to prove the Jews are the real descendants of Abraham to the “debunkers”, that shouldn’t take more than a lifetime to accomplish. Is that supposed to take the scrutiny off the BHI’s phony doctrine?
    As far as proving who the true Israelites are, that’s up to the Most High. There is no severe judgment for the true descendants of Abraham, who claim themselves to be as such. But to those who lead others astray, and claim to be the true Israelites, but are not, there are very bad times ahead at the final judgment. So, all this “debunking” is for your benefit, (or the Jews). It is YOU who must prove your claims. If you have read my blog, http://windstream.me then you must have seen the mountain of so-called “proof” offered by the BHI’s, torn to shreds. As far as the Jews go, (Jew, is ancient Euro for Hebrew Israelite), they have carried the Scripture with them through out history, and have called themselves Jews (or Hebrew Israelites) for a few thousand years, and paid the price for it every inch of the way. I have no reason to doubt the Jews. If the Jews are not the true descendants of Israel, then it’s up to whoever claims to be, (you), to prove it, or who really is, and if your proof is no good, then it too will get “debunked”, for your benefit. Have you ever considered that the reason so many Blacks of America have forgotten who they really are, is that they are not Israelites to begin with?
    The curses that the BHI’s refer to, can be stretched to fit some periods in the African American experience, but all fit the Ashkenazim, far better than the slaves of America.
    Since there is no verse of Scripture that will clearly define an instant and indisputable proof who is who, then why require Scripture to be presented as proof ?
    But we can look at the curses and see whom they best fit, and if you’re going to use such typical examples as: “Blacks represent the majority of the prison population because they are Hebrew Israelites”, (not because of criminal convictions of course), that’s lame, if you can’t do better that, you have already lost any war you are trying to wage.
    Personally, I don’t care who the true descendants of Israel are, or what color they are, I have no horse in this race, I am neither Black nor Jew, I’am sitting here on the sidelines, watching it all, and just haaad to butt in. I, like others, am in search of the truth, and your truth ain’t gettin’ on nobody.
    Also Hiram, I don’t believe you when you say; “it’s not about color”. Everything is about color with black people.

    Respectfully yours, always,ir
    PB
61. 

    Hiram Ben Yisrael
    November 18th, 2011 - 06:04

    Pappybill,

    Shalom. I believe that you really need to search your heart. You say that you don’t care who the true descendants of Israel are, or what color they are, but when we make our claims which are solidly based upon scripture, you are all over us. Actions speak louder than words.

    The truth of the matter is that you do care, and you do have a problem with the so-called “black” slave descendants world-wide claiming to be the true children of Israel. This is why you are so quick to criticize us, yet you write the “Jews” a blank check by not requiring scriptural proof for their claims:

    “The curses that the BHI’s refer to, can be stretched to fit some periods in the African American experience, but all fit the Ashkenazim, far better than the slaves of America.

    Since there is no verse of Scripture that will clearly define an instant and indisputable proof who is who, then why require Scripture to be presented as proof ?”

    ALL fit the Ashkenazim, FAR better than the slaves of America? I see why you want to move away from the scriptures to provide proof, for you conveniently dodged my three scriptural questions that I posed to you earlier.

    Answer my three questions above and prove with scripture your claim that the “ALL curses fit the Askenazim FAR better than the slaves of America.”
62. 

    pappybill
    November 18th, 2011 - 14:38

    Hiram Ben Yisrael
    11-18-11

    First, thanks for Shalomming me.
    I thought I covered all three of your requirements. My point is that is it is up to you to prove that what we all have believed for centuries is wrong, OR, what you have discovered, is the truth, and do it in a way that makes sense.
    I offered an example of BHI Biblical “proof”, and called it “typical”. Do you really believe that black Americans in prison for criminal offences, compares to Jews, men woman and children, being rounded by the hundreds of thousands and put into work, or death camps, by the Nazi’s? Whether you are a Holocaust denier or not, is not important, you can accept at least that many. If you would like a few dozen more examples of this BHI foolishness called “proof,” I can give you that and more.
    As far as your hint of racism, as you say “it isn’t about skin color”, that’s because the Israelites have been scattered through out the world, and are in ALL colors now, you seem to have a problem accepting the white ones.
    What is your estimation of how many Hebrew Israelites entered southern and western Europe in the last 2,500 years. How many do think were taken from Israel in ships, by the Romans?
    Perhaps I’m missing your point. Are you really saying that it’s not fair that BHI’s should have to prove they are descendant from Israel, but the Jew’s don’t? If that is it, then I apologize for thinking you are evil, you are just being obnoxious. Regardless, show me the evidence, even though it’s unfair.
    I would also like to retract the “your truth ain’t gittin on nobody” statement, your ‘truth” is gittin’ on a whole bunch of gullible black folks.

    PB
63. 

    Hiram Ben Yisrael
    November 18th, 2011 - 21:36

    Pappybill,

    I perceive that you are an older man, and I am but a youth ( 41 years old ), so I will not rebuke you, but rather entreat you as a father. Please allow me to address the latter part of your last post:

    “Perhaps I’m missing your point. Are you really saying that it’s not fair that BHI’s should have to prove they are descendant from Israel, but the Jew’s don’t? If that is it, then I apologize for thinking you are evil, you are just being obnoxious. Regardless, show me the evidence, even though it’s unfair.”

    I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that perhaps you were being a bit facetious, for if you are a true seeker of truth, then surely you would want fairness and righteous judgment in all things.

    You hit on something that I will expound upon, and that is the levelling of the playing field. It seems as if you and others are saying “Let Yahuah and the Ashenazim be true and everyone else be liars”. Shouldn’t we let Yahuah be true and every man, including the Ashkenazim, me, and you be liars? Shouldn’t we all equally be liars until scripturally proven to be true?

    Can we divorce ourselves from our pre-conceived notions, our personal prejudices, and our indoctrination from the media, Hollywood, the public schools, the churches, etc., and let us all start out on a level playing field? Can we equally say to the “Black Hebrews”, the Ashkenazim, the Sephardim, the Brit-Ams, the Two-Housers, and whoever, that “you are all liars until proven by scripture to be the true children of Yisrael”?
64. 

    Sean
    November 26th, 2011 - 23:54

    Peace to all on this forum. I am not sure how I even found the site. I was looking up Rabbi Jonathan Bernis, and he had a guest who spoke about DNA test in regards to what I believe are the ashkenazi jews. All of you provided information that support your position, and I do agree that the authority of truth rest with what God gives us which is His word. So I pray that we all can agree with the following:

    But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. – (Heb 11:6)

    The only reason why we had a chosen people was not by genetics, but by action, and that action was faith. The covenant was made to Abraham and his descendants due to Abraham’s faith, and his descendants were to follow suit.

    For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. (Joh 3:16)

    Whoever. This means anybody. Whether white, black, green, purple. If you believe you will be saved.

    There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. – (Ga 3:28-29)

    For those of us who believe in Christ (Yeshua) then we are all indeed Abraham’s seed, because just as Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son, God did it for us, so we all can have an opportunity to eternal life.

    And lastly:

    But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless. – (Tit 3:9)

    My brothers and sisters, these disputes of genealogies are foolish. I know the forum started with “Black Hebrews MORE original than Ashkenazi Jews?” But there should be a bottom line. Does it matter? Many of you stated that Jesus is your Messiah. Do you think this mattered to Him, or the condition of your soul?

    So if some feel that Blacks are the original Hebrews; Let them. If some Whites feel that they are the original Hebrews; Let them. God could could care less because He could raise stones to be the true descendants of Abraham. It is good to know history, but now let’s learn and live how God wants us to live under the new covenant in Christ Jesus. Amen?
65. 

    Hanok
    November 27th, 2011 - 09:43

    Alot of interesting thoughts and conclusions, Sean. I’m sure your heart is in the right place.

    I’m curious about your view on this: Did St Paul make a new commandment, forbidding us from reading and discussing the genealogies detailed within the Torah?
66. 

    Hiram Ben Yisrael
    November 28th, 2011 - 20:29

    Sean,

    I too appreciate your input. Please check out the following links:

    https://wakeupisraelites.wordpress.com/2011/10/08/isnt-being-in-the-messiah-the-only-thing-that-matters/

    https://wakeupisraelites.wordpress.com/2011/10/08/what-difference-does-it-make/

    Yahuah bless.
67. 

    Chuckie
    December 22nd, 2011 - 23:42

    It’s one thing we know for sure & that’s who ever Abraham was, his descendants male ancestry is whatever haplotype he was! So there is a difference of race! We now know through genetics that Neanderthal male line mixed with African woman & African males didn’t mix with female Neanderthal. So we can’t be all related. We should accept this fact & live & let live
68. 

    Hanok
    December 23rd, 2011 - 11:09

    That is a load of non-sense, Chuckie. There could be and are multiple haplotypes associated with every person who lived 4 thousand years ago. Have you seen evidence presented for Neanderthal DNA? If so, can you please cite the source?
69. 

    Hiram Ben Yisrael
    December 24th, 2011 - 19:14

    I have a question about “genetic evidence” of Israelite ancestry. Did somebody dig up remains of ancient Israelite graves and obtain a large enough sampling of body remains to determine the DNA make-up of the people of that region? Furthermore, is it these samples that the “genetic evidence” is taken from?
70. 

    Chuckie
    January 4th, 2012 - 08:34

    My comment is this, we can prove that ysrael is not on the paternal side mixed because the seed is only passed from father to son! & the peternal side only makes you a ysraelite as stated in the scriptures. Now what we do know is that everybody on earth has neanderthal dna except modern hue-mans which is only every male in Africa! Africans have not mingled his seed with other beings! This sounds like genesis to me the sons of god took daughters of men & had children with them making abombinations on the earth! Science has proven this fact out & now the world will start to realize that the only humanity that whites have is through our women & that’s why askenazi state that it’s who your mother is that makes you a jew but scriptures state that the seed of David will be the prophet to lead his chosen people like Moses did! That’s what scripture states also it states that ysrael will never wax pale meaning be white! To be white in scripture is a curse! If anybody says otherwise they like scriptures say speaks with their own heart not the word of The Most High!
71. 

    Hanok
    January 4th, 2012 - 23:20

    Almost all of you have Ephraimite and/or Jewish and/or a myriad of other ethnic ancestries… and none of it has a damn thing to do with your skin color(s) or other physical features.
72. 

    Hanok
    January 4th, 2012 - 23:21

    Neandertal admixture: why I remain skeptical
    http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/12/neandertal-admixture-why-i-remain.html
73. 

    avi choen
    January 25th, 2012 - 23:54

    Ok , so everyone here on this post are claiming to be a great researchers .
    for one to know the truth one must go to the beginning of story ( since we can not go to the source!!!)
    Avraham made a covenant with god( alokim) , avraham Is the father of all jews period . ( from our Kabala and dead sea scrolls and from many jews who left there knowledge before jesus) avraham first son from hagar (his servant) Ismael is carrying avraham Y chromosome .

    there for everyone in the arab world are linked to avraham.
    and since in the Jewish religion we always go by the mom, issac was the first true jew and Aaron is a descended from Issac , so far so good i hope.

    from 12 tribes not 10 we have Canaan, those 12 tribes are represent by jacob 12 kids (in order of birth), Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph and Benjamin and yes joseph had to sons Mannasseh and Ephraim but lets stick to those one so we wont have Neyo Hanok ester scroll.

    Now those tribes had flee canaan and scattered all over africa of today and europe as we know it , so you will find many non jews that carry the same Y chromosome that you hanok have mentioned, In black and white . as I fact anyone who live or has lived in canaan of the time wont be white and that that to location of the origin and the way the sun shine there ( which is 85% of the year if not even more ) so they with time would become darker skin people.

    As for the Khazar empire im sure we can link them to avraham blood line but keep in mind we jewish people go by the mom . example :

    Buggatti car is made from parts from England, Germany, Switzerland on a France land. and the car is not considered German ( even though VW own it) it considered France. same goes for jews

    all we know Is for fact that ashkenazi jews were formed for the first time around the 10 century . before that they weren’t any askenazi people at all not to mention ashkenazi jews!!!

    So for the first question that ignited this whole pasha , original jews are darker skin and were mostly dark hair and eyes.

    and neyo—- yehusa/jesus is not the messiah ,cause if he was, according to the Jewish religion all the dead will be alive and gogo magog had happened already.

    and as far as my credentials , from the same scholars that have been mentioned here from both sides of the scale from the Jewish side and from the non Jewish side . anyone that can be verified with more then 3 sources at his time of writing, since we know that history is writing by the hands of the winners .

    .

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