10 Reasons the Jews are from Judah
Posted on September 7, 2007
Filed Under Ancient History, Creationism vs. Evolutionism, Flavius Josephus, House of Judah (Jews), Israel (Jacob), Know Thyself, Last Days, Talmud, Two House (Reality) Theology
Post has been moved here: 10 Proofs “the Jews” are from Judah .
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[...] 10 Reasons the Jews are from Judah [...]
The tribe of Simeon was scattered among Judah. They were given cities to live in among Judah but did not receive a portion or division of Eretz Yisra’el. That would mean they were not present during the Assyrian captivity. However, they would have been present when the Jews were carried away to Babylon.
Am I missing something here? Should we be referring to the Northern nine tribes instead of ten? Would Simeon be considered judah or Ephraim (Joseph)?
Compare the Census of Numbers 1:1-54 and the Census of Numbers 26:1-65. You’ll see a drastic reduction in Simeon’s tribal count in comparison with the other tribes. Then in Deuteronomy 33, Moshe does not even include Simeon in his final blessing. Some teachers think the bulk of Simeon’s population left the Assembly and settled in southern Greece. See the article Mystery of the Gentiles (Goyim) for a few more details.
Thank you Hanok, I will read the references and article. However, you still haven’t given me your opinion on the questions I asked. Is it a Northern ten tribes, or should it be nine tribes if Simeon has been totally removed and moved to Greece? Are they to be considered Judah, since they lived among Judah just as Benjamin did? If they were not included in the final blessing does it mean they were totally cut off from Israel, or are they included in Ephraim, two sticks? Dan was not mentioned among the 144,000 and also Ephraim, what exactly does that mean?
I find it very difficult to figure out just who is included and who is excluded. Just as in your tables of the DNA. My DNA is R1b from Ireland. According to your table, Ireland was not included among those who descended as a sub-clade of Hpg P. My ancestry is from Ireland. I have believed for some time now that I am descended from Dan, because Dan settled in Ireland according to most literature I have read on the subject.
In your opinion, are those from Ireland who are R1b among the Joes?
Thanks and blessings in Yeshua to you.
Hi David! My apologies for neglecting your question. I generally “believe” the remnant of Simeon that stayed in the Assembly of Israel were eventually swallowed up by the predominant tribes of both the northern and southern kingdoms (since they were scattered in the midst of both). If the theories are right regarding Simeon and their presence in the population that later became known as the Lacedemonians (Spartans), then it appears their population there eventually rejoined and mixed with the larger Ephraimite populations that settled in the region at the same time and with those who later moved into Europe from Caucasia and Central Asia (more than a 1000 years later). This is largely why I think they are accounted with 10-Israel, the Joes.
And regarding Ireland: on the Y-Chromosome side, they are heavily weighted with your haplogroup (R1b). I’ve seen estimates that exceed 80% of the male population. The concentration of R1b all over western Europe makes it difficult for me to isolate Ireland and identify it as exclusively the tribe of Dan. I’ve likely read alot of the same 10-Israel literature you’ve read on the subject, and those authors have many interesting things to say, but the only way I can personally see the Irish as Dan is if יהוה uses some other genetic (maybe MT-DNA) or non-genetic mechanism to apply that identification.
Ephraim is represented in the 144k of Revelation as “Joseph”. Compare Ezekiel 37:19 where the Stick of Joseph is in the hand of Ephraim. Simeon’s appearance and Dan’s disappearance in Revelations is very interesting. I’ve wondered if Dan as a broader population, whoever they are today, ultimately betray יהוה in the same fashion of Judas Iscariot, but there may be some other answer that we’ll eventually understand.
Hg R and Hg Q are subclades of Hg P. See Y-DNA Haplogroup P and its Subclades - 2008. By the way, I’m Q1a… and I think our Y-DNA (both R and Q) is of Ephraim. He was the one promised to be the “fullness of the peoples” and on a genetic-level, his descendants did so… they filled up the nations, pushing other peoples (even other Israelite tribes) aside.
Shalom Hanok,
No apologies necessary. We are brothers.
Thank you for your time spent answering my questions. It really helps. If I understand you, if I am Hg R, I am more than likely Ephraim. That is what I thought but I wasn’t sure.
You say you are Hg Q. Are you Native American? I live in Redmond Oregon and there is a large Native American population here. There is a reservation about 30 miles from me. I have given some thought to trying to find a way to minister to them and introduce them to Hebrew roots. No doors have opened however.
I follow you well on the Simeon issue now. I can see how what you say would be true. I reread the blessings in Genesis and it says they will be scattered among Israel, not just Judah. They only received cities in Judah but the scattering would be throughout at one time or another. Thank you for helping me to clear that up in my mind. It was giving me a little trouble.
From one Joe to another, may Yahvah bless you and keep you, may he make His face to shine upon you, may He lift up His countenance upon you and grant you Shalom, b’shem Yeshua HaMashiach!
David
Nope, not Native American… well… at least the scientists think my Q branch arrived here via northern Europe. My particular paternal line arrived in Virginia about 400 years ago, most likely from England (but traditional paper research hasn’t been able to confirm). If you look at some of the Haplogroup migration maps, you’ll see an arm of Q branching off and traveling west. Probably carried with R and/or N during the Great Migration period after Parthia’s decline.
There is much I disagree with regarding Mormon doctrine, but I think they were right regarding the Native American Israelite identity. They definitely need to be fished and ministered to, just like the rest of 10-Israel. (=